What happens when you build a business to $20M—only to make the difficult decision to shut it down? In this episode, we sat down with Joshua Church to unpack the raw, behind-the-scenes reality of entrepreneurship, leadership, and navigating transitions with faith and integrity.
Joshua opens up about what it truly takes to show up when everything feels heavy—having hard conversations, making what feels like, “impossible” decisions, and learning to trust that the next step will reveal itself. He shares how he leaned on his team, surrendered control, and found strength in God during one of the toughest seasons of his career.
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0:30: Enjoy this new episode.
0:34: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Fully expressed podcast.
0:39: We are so stoked on our guest today.
0:42: It’s one of our very dear friends, Josh Church.
0:45: He is a performance coach, entrepreneur, and Forbes 30 under 30 honoree dedicated to helping people stress less, achieve more, and have more fun.
0:55: As the previous co-founder of Edge Theory Labs, he has helped create the world’s first iceless ice bath.
1:02: Combining innovation and portability.
1:04: He’s also the host of the Find the Others podcast, which is simply incredible and truly captures Josh’s energy and purpose in this world.
1:13: Wow.
1:14: Hello, so fun.
1:16: I love being in a room with you too.
1:18: Welcome, how are you?
1:20: I’m doing well today.
1:21: Yeah, I’m doing well.
1:22: It’s the seasons changing, like holiday season is here for us now, and I love it.
1:27: So good.
1:28: Yeah.
1:28: Thanks for being here with us.
1:29: Yeah, yeah.
1:31: So we’re excited to drop in because you’ve been in quite the transition.
1:37: I have been, yeah, and I feel like it’s rare to have such page turning moments in life, like for me right now, this is a massive one, Saturn’s Return, it’s happening.
1:47: We love it, but we’re here for it, we’re here for it, but for, for me, like this is definitely like oh it’s, it’s funny too cause at the start of 2024, I mean, we were together at the start of 2024 and And my intention, what I thought in 2024 was me was completely different.
2:00: And I feel like I’ve learned a lot now to just be like, and my, my grandma always used to say man plans and God laughs, like, just to, you know, you show up, do your part, surrender to the to the outcome, because it all is working out for you eventually, but for me it’s been this kind of rare opportunity where like my whole life is flipped upside down now.
2:17: It’s like the apartment that I was living in, I moved out.
2:19: Of the office that I was going into, we’re just clearing out of the business, the thing that I was putting my energy into all the time every day is now done.
2:27: So it’s like, whoa, there’s this blank canvas and this blank slate of like, what’s next?
2:31: And that question can be kind of scary of like what’s next?
2:34: And everyone’s know what’s next?
2:35: It’s like it can be kind of anxiety ridden and scary or it can be exciting of like, what’s next?
2:40: So I very.
2:41: and feeling into the like, what’s next, like, exciting, blank slate, what a beautiful time.
2:45: I don’t have a family or I’m not in a relationship right now, like I’m as light and as lean as I’ll probably ever be for the rest of my life.
2:52: So it’s, yeah, it’s it’s a unique transition time and I’m really, really aiming to be intentional about that.
2:58: You’re in this optimistic.
3:00: Yeah.
3:01: Well, let’s see it back to.
3:03: Yeah, so for those that don’t know, maybe we can tell them a little bit what’s right there for sure.
3:09: So about 3 years ago I started Edge Theory Labs with my cousin, we co-founded it and and as you said in the intro, we, we built the first portable all in one ice bath, so it didn’t exist before we built it, which is really cool, and we brought something to the world that didn’t exist and brought this healing modality of cold water immersion to a lot of people, which was a passion of mine.
3:28: And and when we started off, it was just like, we wanted to help people, right?
3:31: And we wanted to do a cousin project during COVID, we were like tinkering in his garage and we were, we were making a prototype and And we wanted to just help I wanted to share this tool with people that changed my life, and over 3 years we had helped over 4000 people, got in the tub and homes of 4000 people, generated over 20 million in revenue, had a team of 15 people at one point, like, worked with some of the most amazing celebrities, athletes, and thought leaders out there, and just I found myself time and time again in in rooms and in places where I’m like, what is happening?
4:02: Like, how is this in my life right now?
4:03: So it was like this just tremendous, there was this magic of kind of energy around and if we felt that the team felt that it was just kind of this magic, and especially from the outside, it seemed like we’re doing quite well and 20 million revenue, that’s amazing.
4:14: However, there’s a that’s a very capital intensive business and the the we ran into some pretty serious manufacturing issues that required a lot of money for us to fix, and anytime you do a first generation hardware type of product, there’s a lot of tweaking and iterating and improving and and so we, because we were the first ones to do.
4:30: This as well, like we had some of those teething problems, and so we were constantly improving the unit, and the way that it worked is we didn’t have any patent protection with it too, so, you know, manufacturers started ripping it off very quickly, which is expected, it’s kind of the way China works, just happens that way.
4:43: And so all the other people that came later benefited from our missteps and our stumbling of building the unit.
4:50: And so then the market got pretty saturated and we our sales started coming down, our overhead got high.
4:56: We built it for growth, like after our 2nd year and we did over 10 million in revenue, we’re like, all right, like we’re gonna take the shot here, we’re gonna build for growth, we raised a little bit of money and we built our team and our infrastructure to build for growth.
5:07: And when you do that, if growth doesn’t come, you’re in trouble.
5:10: But there’s a shot that you take, it was a strategic decision that we made, you know, in hindsight, we would have done things differently, but I stand by that decision.
5:17: It was like, cool, like we’re gonna build on this momentum here, we’re gonna go for this, and then Mark got saturated, we ran into some issues that cost us.
5:22: A lot of cash and sales stagnated and our overhead was high, even though we cut, we cut, we cut.
5:28: Our budget was built for a $15 million a year budget, and when you’re coming into half of that, it doesn’t really work out.
5:34: And when you don’t have deep VC funding, you string together a couple months where you’re losing cash.
5:39: We started hemorrhaging cash, and then all of a sudden you run out of cash, and we had to shut down.
5:43: So we were forced to get to that point where we had to shut down and and do an orderly liquidation to make sure that we could.
5:49: Pay as much of our debts back as possible, make sure our team was taken care of, so that was like really the last 4 months has been that shutdown process, which is wild.
5:57: A yearmark to my cousin Rob had his baby in August.
6:01: He’s a first time dad, he had his daughter in on August.
6:04: It was literally the week she was born when this started going down and we’re like, I think we’re gonna have to shut down the business, but she’s 4 months old now, it’s beautiful.
6:12: Damn.
6:13: She’s like the the thing that got burned.
6:15: Yeah.
6:15: Yeah, that’s right.
6:18: That’s absolutely, births and deaths, it’s, it’s what happens and, and so these last 4 months, I mean, we’ve talked about this, but it’s been some of the most challenging time of my life for sure, hands down, full spectrum.
6:30: I’ve had to face some of my greatest fears, which is your business shutting down, right?
6:35: Something you have such an identity towards as well.
6:37: I mean they’ll go through an ego death with that, having to go through difficult conversations of telling.
6:42: Team members that you love, my best friends I worked with, hey, like your roles can, like we have to, we’re shutting things down or we’re having to let go of people that I loved working with having to tell a debt, a debtor, a secured creditor that we had that gave us a million dollars dollar credit line, like, hey, we can’t pay you back, having to tell investors, hey, we lost a million dollars of your money.
7:01: Not fun conversations.
7:02: I’m gonna tell customers, hey, I know you just spent $5000 on this product and like, we’re out of business, we’re not gonna be able to support you with this, we, we.
7:09: We worked in to make sure we had ways they could get support outside of us, but all of those stages and it was just like, all at once, right?
7:15: It’s like, oh, this is a mountain we have ahead of us.
7:18: I’m so curious.
7:19: I wanna take it back, so we’ll talk about the journey, cause he said like you kind of started that set yourself up for growth.
7:25: Right.
7:25: And then all of a sudden the numbers weren’t coming in.
7:27: How do you keep yourself up float even at that time?
7:29: Because yes, the end was probably like a huge thing, but there’s also seems like this compound effect of resilience and capacity.
7:36: that you uphold.
7:37: How did you get through that, even before the end, right?
7:40: How did you?
7:41: How did you show up in the morning and you like, I’m gonna keep showing up showing up.
7:45: With a lot of help from some friends, with a lot of help from my team, and really my team, our team was just tremendous in that, and we were all together and my the people that I work closest to, my, my co-founder, specifically my, my, my head of sales, Chad, and my head of marketing cat who are literally two of my best friends.
8:02: Entire world.
8:03: It was just every day we’re like, figure it out and it was every day it was like sending each other Abraham Hicks videos like we’re sending each other motivational stuff.
8:11: It’s like we’re we’re just focusing on showing up and controlling the controllables that became our mantra through 2024, was like, show up, control the controllables, and it would go in waves too, or be waves where it’s just like not seeing these like the results are not coming, but like, stay focused on it and we go waves is like, OK, it’s working, amazing, right?
8:27: OK.
8:28: And it’s just this roller.
8:29: And that’s entrepreneurship.
8:30: That’s the startup world.
8:31: I’ve had experience in the startup world before.
8:32: I know that’s the case.
8:34: And as you both know, the shit is not for the faint of heart or the weakest stomach, say it all the time, like there’s this allure, there’s this whole the glamour around having your own business, being your own boss, all this stuff, and it’s like, yeah, OK, but there’s this whole other side of it, and, and if you’re fortunate, and we always remind ourselves too, it’s like, pressure is a privilege.
8:51: Like we’re in a privileged position to be able to be here where it’s like, we have this, like we have a shot and And we’re building resilience through this process, like you said, like, is this amazing parallel to the cold water itself.
9:03: It’s like we know how to handle breathing and the discomfort and the challenges, like this is what we this is what we’re about, like, let’s embody this and let’s use this for growth, and so I could not on my own, do that by myself.
9:14: I could not show up, like you would.
9:16: The battery would be drained very quickly.
9:18: So it was a it was a bad, I mean, all 2024, really in January, as we started to see in Jan, Feb, March 21, we started to come in a little bit under budget.
9:25: We’re like, OK, maybe we should reassess things here, and we started doing that really in January, and we just kept cutting, we kept refining, we kept refocusing, restructuring, so it was an amazing exercise, but to answer your question, It was the daily conversations, the support of like staying up, taking care of myself, making sure my health wasn’t being compromised.
9:45: It was like it was doing all those things and focusing on, again, we said, control the controllables, do what’s in your, do what you can do, focus on those inputs you put in, and then let God take care of the rest.
9:54: And one of the prayers that I would say all the time is, God, please lead me where you’re where I’m needed most.
10:00: God please need me to lead me to where I’m needed most, and I trust you to lead me to where I’m needed most, as long as that’s here with an edge.
10:06: Amazing.
10:07: I want it to be, but I can’t understand your bigger plan and your bigger picture, and so I’m surrendering my faith to you to lead me to where I’m needed most and know that I know for a fact that what I’m going through right now is preparing me what I’ve asked for ultimately, and to be in the position to serve, because I’ve signed up for service.
10:21: We made that decision a long time ago, ladies.
10:23: We made that decision a long time ago, like, we’re here to serve, we’re here to do things, and we have to kind of hands up, surrender to the form that that takes and just be committed to the mission.
10:32: And it’s such a beautiful perspective because I feel like in a year from now, in 5 years from now, like you’ll be able to look back every, I really do think every single thing we experience is leading us to that next thing.
10:43: And the cool part is you’ve, you know, as someone who knew you right when you started this, which is so cool, even before, yeah, and seeing you.
10:51: It started like in Iceland, right?
10:52: When you did your retreat in Iceland, which is so cool.
10:54: I remember that and being like, I wanna go to that, how fun.
10:57: Also like hell no, walking naked through they’re walking in their skivvies through the snow, and I was like, that’s really awesome and also terrifying.
11:06: I love that for you.
11:07: I love that for you.
11:08: Let me know how that goes.
11:10: But then watching you build this and seeing you in a lot of ways, not that you were ever a boy before, but becoming a man in so many ways, you know, and sitting here in front of you and seeing a totally evolved different person, and I feel like.
11:25: I feel like it’s, it really is preparing you.
11:28: I’ve always thought you’re here absolutely to be a leader and to step into something that’s so much bigger than yourself, and how do you get there when you are able to sit in like the ultimate discomfort and have these conversations with other adults that probably feels, and we’ll, I’m sure we’ll talk about it like terrifying, and then overcoming that and coming out the other side and being like, OK, God has a plan.
11:51: It’s so beautiful.
11:52: And I’m so curious about that, to peel that back a little bit.
11:55: What did you do when you wanted to shrink?
11:57: Or like, what did you do when like your nervous system was like, no, I need to get the fuck out of here, or like, I don’t want to let anyone into my world because I also can imagine like, how did it feel asking people for support or really telling people like this is what’s really going on so that you could be emotionally supported, not just like the company or the business, but like you as a leader.
12:16: Yeah, it’s a great question.
12:17: It comes back to the relationships, comes back to family, and And it, and this is also this was also part of, I think like a karmic loop for me and a part of a big lesson for me was to be able to like open up and like let people in because I’m typically the one that’s there supporting other people.
12:31: And so I’m kind of coming with this like, you know, togetherness, right, like togetherness.
12:35: And so being able to kind of like take the armor off and to like allow people in and to see the real vulnerability as I’m going through, even to people close around me was something that was was new for me and some Work that I had to and and I’m still practicing, right?
12:49: But, but that was, that was directly related to the, to the support, right, it was equal parts support to that challenge of how challenging it was to open up the support was there, and so it comes back to my family, it comes back to my, my, my close friends, like the few people that are like my people, right, that I was able to really be there in the raw with that that helped me through some of those tough days when it was just like, you know, I’m, I can think of a handful of people right now are just like, they were just there and they were there for me.
13:14: And they were of course happy to be there for me.
13:16: They wanted to be there for me, but that, and then I think that it’s just when you have that bigger perspective, and when you have that relationship with God, for me, it made all the difference, because it was just constant, it was like I had to be, I had to be showing up.
13:31: I was putting so much of my effort and energy into showing up, which is where it needed to be, so that I could, because also it’s like, I got a team, I got a show, I got an organization to lead.
13:39: I have people out there that are counting on me and Like, to me though, the way that I think this is just the way that I’ve operated, it’s the way that I, I, I play sports, it’s just that mentality that I have is just like good, like, I’m, I’m here for that opportunity, like give me the ball, 4th and 1, give me the ball.
13:55: I’m putting in the end zone, you know, and, and, and so there’s that time for that masculine energy too, where it’s just like, my, my shoulders are strong enough, I can take the load, like, come on, let’s go.
14:03: But then there’s that, there’s that balance too where it’s like you can’t just do only that, otherwise you’ll burn out and you’ll wither away.
14:10: There’s a duality.
14:11: in that because you’re talking so much like, OK, I need to be emotionally supported.
14:14: I need to be honest about what’s going on, but I also need to show the fuck up.
14:17: That’s right.
14:17: And I also need to lead the other people because you had a company.
14:21: You had people underneath you that are looking to you.
14:24: For like, Josh, what am I going to do?
14:26: What are we doing?
14:27: How are you feeling today?
14:28: What’s the energy and you’re carrying that energy in that room, but then also creating spaces it seems like to be held and what was really going on internally.
14:36: Exactly.
14:36: And the other thing that helped get me through a lot was a lot of fish one on one burritos.
14:40: Favorite comfort food, a lot of fish 101, yeah, exactly, yeah, one of my friends got me a $100 101 burrito gift certificate gift and you know, exactly, it was like this is the greatest thing ever.
14:54: So a lot of fish on burritos and, and honestly like a lot of too, a lot of like just chill time of like, I’m gonna put on Netflix and I’m gonna like tune out for a second here, right?
15:02: And and knowing and and being OK with that, and, and not necessarily numbing out but like being OK with like, yeah, OK, like this is what I need right now and And but and then getting ready to show up for the next day, and I mean, the remembering, I think why I started this and why I decided to do this, and what the mystery mission is about, like, I always felt like this is an opportunity to lead by example here, because this is an opportunity to bring the mission to to even deep more deeply embody this mission, which is the whole idea is like, life is hard and we Get thrown challenges.
15:36: How do you respond to those challenges?
15:37: Do you brace?
15:38: Do you white knuckle your way through it?
15:40: Is your breath shallow, or do you embrace?
15:42: Can you practice embracing and shifting into that embrace, and can you have that regulated nervous system as you show up, so this is what this is what we preach, right?
15:49: This is the message, this is the mission.
15:52: God gave you your answer.
15:53: Yeah, like it it sounds like that because like he literally created ice, he fell in love with the ice.
16:00: Yeah be in with the eye and then he’s like, yeah, God’s like, let’s see, you’re gonna need this.
16:02: Yeah, like it literally, it’s just all I know, it makes so much sense.
16:12: I was just gonna say too that I think so often we think of challenge as the difficult parts, but I really think even as you were mentioning how you were in these rooms with people that you looked up to or that you thought were above you and you That also is a challenge, maybe a better challenge that we want to have instead of the other side, but the fact that you’ve learned now all of that spectrum, not just when it’s the hardest, but also when that is another opportunity that many people want to shrink and feel unworthy of being in the room with those people.
16:41: And, and that is another opportunity that you had to really stand in your power.
16:45: It definitely it definitely was for sure and it was like it was so funny, but it was.
16:50: Such a regular basis and what a gift to have such a regular basis where I was like feeling those like, you know, the, the nervousness or things it’s like I’m not, you can feel right you feel in your body it’s like, OK, I’m sitting in my car.
17:00: I’m like I’m about to go knock on the door of like, you know, this athlete that I’ve grown up watching, or like I’m gonna go meet with Dana White of the UFC or I’m like I’m going to hang out with Mike Posner or you just like I need these pieces just like the Jonas brother.
17:12: I’m like, OK, am I really doing this right?
17:13: OK, and just feeling that.
17:15: My body and, and I get it’s so funny, but it’s like just like anything, you get used to it, right?
17:19: You, you practice, you take enough reps, you get used to it.
17:21: So I got used to being able to like vulnerably go in front of people or or pitch the product or or go meet someone that I looked up to or and and that also provided a realm of also deeper inquiry of like, OK, well, why do I feel this is just another person, that’s another human, like, why do I feel like why should I feel inferior by any means, but there’s always that complex too.
17:40: And that was a theme throughout, especially with the conversations, some of the difficult conversations, like one of the things I, I say, and I, and I, I honestly, I thank God for, is that I have and I was just reflecting this in my journal just the other day, I was like, I have gotten really good at being able to have difficult conversations.
17:57: And I have been able to get really good at increasing my capacity for handling things through this process.
18:04: I’m like, what a beautiful quality, what a, what a gift.
18:06: And like, don’t we all, like, what don’t we all want that?
18:08: If you could say, hey, do you want to have the capacity to handle hard things?
18:11: Do you want to have the ability to have difficult conversations?
18:13: Every single person would say like, yes, I want that.
18:15: And then if I were to say, OK, well, here’s the thing to that’s gonna build that capacity, you’re gonna be like, no, I don’t want it, right?
18:21: I think even, I don’t think people know that they want that, but I also think that people want to be able to show up the way that you did.
18:27: They want to create the business.
18:28: They want to be able to sell their product.
18:29: They want to be in front of the people in the rooms that they want to be.
18:33: And then you tell them, well, you gotta to do these things, and they’re like, I don’t wanna do that.
18:36: Just kidding.
18:37: Yeah, but what a gift that you created such a huge capacity.
18:41: And that’s like what I really want to highlight, like the entire season or era.
18:45: Of edge.
18:46: It’s called fucking great, but it’s been creating capacity for this beautiful thing.
18:55: Yeah, it’s like your soul set yourself up to really go through this process so that you, yeah, so they’re running the show we’re running the show like we talk about this all the time, you know, our soul came here to learn specific lessons.
19:09: And we’re meant to learn those lessons.
19:10: So in the next lifetime we get to just build on top of that, and you, your soul specifically looked for this for a specific reason.
19:17: And I was like, you can handle it.
19:20: So if you’re not going to handle it, you’re gonna come back and learn it again.
19:23: Yeah, I’m done with this one.
19:25: I’m ready to go to 3rd grade grade I’m done with that’s what I feel too is like we’re all just, we’re all in kindergarten out here like we’re all in what are we doing?
19:32: We don’t even know.
19:33: Yeah, float on a rock in space, but I do view that these last 3 years as a massive gift and, and, and there was a big shift that happened that I think I want to highlight too, which was that in the lens of looking at this as as a success or as a failure, right, like the business failed, if you look at it, right?
19:47: We’re no longer in business, we, we don’t have a product to sell, we don’t have a team, the business failed, but whether how I look at that as a failure just purely depends on the lens of the way I’m looking at that through, and There was a lot of hard resistance kind of on that download as you’re like trying to avoid facing the reality that this might not work, and we may have to close this, and one of the things that I wrestled with a lot was because was that we had we had we were it felt like we were so close, you know, we had, we had so many things that are so hard to do that we had together.
20:16: We had this incredible team of people.
20:18: They could have a huge capacity for growing even more.
20:21: We had like this community of people that were, they were following us and they were they were using our product.
20:26: Every day they were, we, we had a brand, like we had, we had a mission, we had a Y, like we had all these things together, we had a proof of concept, we had, we were selling millions of dollars of product like we had all these things and it was like all the pieces were right there and it was, it felt like it was so close to being like something that like this could be one day a household brand or this could be, this could be a couple $100 million a year business.
20:47: This could be a billion dollar brand.
20:48: Like, I saw that vision so clearly and it felt like we were so close, and so you can imagine holding on to that and seeing that and seeing what the future and.
20:55: Having those visions, it’s like, now all of a sudden seeing the downward spiral and confronting the mortality of this, like, that’s really, really hard, but and that was causing so much of that inner resistance and like the inner challenge was what I was creating, cause life is, you know, 5% what happens is 95% how we’re interpreting and responding to it.
21:13: And so I was interpreting and responding that way, that that was resistance and then all of a sudden it’s like as we were kind of on the comedown, I just had this clarity moment of like, what if Edge wasn’t here to be my billion dollar brand, like What if Edge was here to be my MBA program and to be my 3 year, to be the the foundation, to be like, what if Edge was supposed to be like, OK, here’s a 3 year period where you’re gonna see it all, you’re gonna see the incredible growth, you’re gonna learn as much as you possibly can, you’re gonna do a fundraising round, you’re gonna work with some of your celebrity heroes, you’re gonna build a team, you’re gonna work with your friends, you’re gonna build the capacity, you’re gonna do all these things, and then it’s gonna have a hard close at the end of it, and you’re gonna be done after 3 years.
21:51: I would have been like, Well that sounds good, right?
21:54: I’d be like, OK, well, maybe that’s what it is.
21:57: So as soon as I shifted the the lens to look at Edge from like, this could have been a big business and could have been the thing to this was exactly what it needed to be, like, this could have been the 3 year learning MBA program that will set me up for what’s next, then it all of a sudden shifted that emotional charge.
22:17: I want to peel that back a little bit because I think there’s so many entrepreneurs out there that live a little.
22:22: but we need a little lulu, you know, we got to you got to be like, I’m gonna have the XYZ vision.
22:29: But then there’s this reality that sits in and that your business is not growing, your business is not transitioning, you’ve been doing the same thing.
22:37: For some people, they’ve been doing the same thing for 5 more than 10 years, just holding on.
22:42: So you came to this thought I gave you a new perspective.
22:46: It sounds like your nervous system rested in that.
22:47: I was like, I could, I can absorb that.
22:49: So you felt this like.
22:50: when you heard that.
22:51: But like, what was really the deciding factor?
22:54: Like, I’m like if anyone’s listening, and they’re internally struggling with like, do I keep going?
23:00: What do I do?
23:01: Well, that’s a personal decision for every single person.
23:03: I don’t think there’s like a right answer, but I’m just so curious what was yours.
23:06: Yeah, well, for us, we didn’t really have a choice because we literally were running out of money and it was like we’re not gonna be able to make payroll, you know, next month if based on we we can’t order more inventory, we don’t have enough cash to order more inventory and we’re not gonna make.
23:19: Payroll, so like we didn’t have a choice.
23:21: We’re like, and we don’t have, if I had more personal funds to be able to like float the business or invest more in the business, I probably would have, but I I didn’t, and so it was like, OK, well, we don’t, we’re left with no and we tried fundraising, which was like we’re left with no options to where we have to, which challenging, but also kind of a blessing because it made the decision easy where it wasn’t like something that was kind of just like hanging along there, or especially if you’re in another type of business, if you’re a solopreneur, you have like a really low overhead business, and you’re just kind of yourself and And you can kind of keep hanging on to something, where it’s like it was just very clear it’s just like, oh look, we don’t have a choice, so we have, you know, at a board meeting where the unanimous decision for dissolution was was there and it was like, yeah, this is just, this is the process and you’ve reached the end of the road.
24:04: As you’re saying that, I also think about the identity though, attached to the business because I think Yes, like you had the blessing that literally you couldn’t financially sustained the people that ran the business.
24:14: You couldn’t financially hold it up.
24:15: So the numbers like you had clear data that was like, you know, but for some people, like, they pushed it, they go bankrupt, they take out a lot of credit cards.
24:26: They promise things to a lot of people and say like, what’s gonna happen?
24:30: So I’m so curious like how did you also let your identity detach from egg?
24:35: I think what keeps people in is like, this is me.
24:38: And they hold on.
24:39: Yeah.
24:40: So did you have to go through that process?
24:42: Thankfully, like that was something I was working through throughout the entire time and through the come up even, which made it really and just based on some of the personal development work I’ve done in the past of like and and what my mentor I worked very closely with as well, like, you know, it’s if you if you take credit, then you take blame, right?
24:58: But one of the lines I love is take no credit, take no blame, stay focused on your chief aim.
25:02: Stay focused, right?
25:03: Like, if you, if you’re willing to take credit for something, then you expose yourself to being able to take blame for something and feel criticism.
25:09: But if you don’t take credit, then you don’t take the blame.
25:12: So it’s a very hard thing to do, but like I was something I practiced a lot through like, through the initial success is just like, this is not like there’s clearly something happening here that’s greater than just me.
25:21: It’s like, yes, we have this idea, yes, we put these strategies, yes, we’re selling this thing right, like we’re doing a lot, but like, there’s something else greater here that’s that’s doing this, and so, like, I’m not, I can’t take full credit for this, right?
25:31: And I think that’s also when you live a God-centered life or you believe in a higher power or something bigger than yourself, then you know, it’s like, you know, and some of your strokes of inspiration, it’s like, we’re just channeling at best, like we’re just we’re just a vessel to for for a higher power to work through.
25:44: And if you really believe that and feel that, then like, that’s not yours to take credit for the like it’s a co-creation, like, yeah, of course, there’s your part in showing up and doing, but I really practiced that throughout.
25:55: Otherwise, I feel like I’d be in a complete ego death spiral like identity.
26:00: Is of myself and and also I knew too very early on that like, this was, this was just an expression, this was one part of who I am as Joshua Church, right?
26:09: This is just one, this is a thing that I do, and it became like, and and I had to have and thank God I had mentors and people close to me that could catch me on some of those things and be like, OK, well, careful, your identity is getting a little wrapped up there, to be like, OK, cool, this is something I do.
26:21: That’s why it was really important for me to continue doing my podcasts even through this, even though it didn’t make sense, and I was like, I should probably shut it down or just even if it was only 10 episodes I did last week.
26:29: year to like still do something to where it was like, this is, there’s more to me than just edge theory labs, because it would be very difficult otherwise.
26:38: So I, I think I was really, it was a lot of the work in my previous life, right?
26:42: And then in the previous life before Edge that set me up and to do it, which, which is hard too when you see the hockey stick growth, like, and you go, you go on a rocket ship and, you know, you do 10 million in your first year and a half in business, it’s like that’s so uncommon, right?
26:55: Like you just, you don’t see that and so it, it did take a lot of Work, but a constant reminder to like, stay, stay humble with that, and also know that this was, you know, it’s just, it’s it’s, it’s just one aspect of who I am, and my little nephew, when I see him, he doesn’t know what I do, he doesn’t care what I do, right?
27:10: It’s not about that.
27:11: He loves me for me and for who I am is Uncle Joshy, like, that’s, that’s what it’s about, right?
27:16: And, and that’s the way it is for for me in in life as in general.
27:20: That’s amazing.
27:21: I love that you like God lead.
27:22: What did you say?
27:23: God’s leading, God’s leading like the entire time, like when you’re talking about.
27:27: This is just like, just hearing you speak and like this interview in general, like you are just so stable on your faith and letting him guide you.
27:35: And I think it’s so easy when your egos running the show where you’re like, my egos use it this way, and he’s like, dude, I got a completely different plan.
27:43: You’re not even open to seeing the other.
27:46: And like there’s another door that’s clearly here for you and it seems like you were able to connect.
27:50: To that often, which really dropped into like, oh, there is another door here that I meant to.
27:55: I don’t know what’s on the other side of the door, but I know that I’m meant to walk through it.
27:59: Exactly, and I can’t see it and I won’t be able to see it for some time, but like I know there’s something here.
28:04: I don’t make no mistakes.
28:05: I don’t make no mistakes.
28:07: And and that’s the way I have enough evidence in my life personally from my experience, especially through the hardship to be able to see that.
28:14: Say that confidently, and so it’s the same thing, and again, all this this all these things in perspectives don’t make it easier when you’re sitting in a room and you have to have the conversation to say, hey, your livelihood no longer has a place here, you know what I mean like we we can’t keep paying you or we’re going out of business, like, it doesn’t make any of that easier, but it gives it makes it worthwhile.
28:32: It gives you, it gives you the purpose to get through it because you know that the only way out.
28:37: is through, and you have to go through this.
28:39: And like, I, again, I, I had it on Post-it notes, I said it all the time, God, please lead me to where I’m needed most.
28:46: You have that perspective.
28:47: I don’t.
28:47: And if that means letting go of the way that I thought it was gonna be, which was running this business for years to come and earning millions, impacting a lot of people through that process and being able to like, I saw that whole path light up and it was lighting up and that was the path I was literally on.
29:01: And, but God, if there’s a better way, like, that’s not for me to decide.
29:05: You have the, you know, our inner being, our higher higher higher souls, they have that perspective that we just don’t in this 3D right now.
29:12: So it’s that there’s that strength and surrender of like, OK, all I can do, and then there’s a relief in that is all I can do is focus on what I can control.
29:20: Like that’s it.
29:20: It’s literally that simple.
29:22: It’s just like it’s so simple but so hard.
29:25: It’s just like, but I find such relief in that I just like, all I gotta do is show up.
29:28: I mean, it just happened to me the other day.
29:29: I sent out.
29:30: A proposal for this consulting work I’m doing, I’m like, and I was just like, I sent it off and I felt so good.
29:33: I was like, this is so fun because I’m not stressing about this at all, because if it’s meant to be, it’s going to be, and if it’s not, then like God’s God’s rejection is your protection.
29:42: Like, if it’s not, then great, fine, and I, and there was gonna be something else my energy needs to go towards.
29:46: But I put my time and energy and showing up and sending that proposal out and putting the energy in towards it, so I felt good that like I could send that out and be good regardless of the outcome.
29:56: And in living in that surrendered state.
29:58: Where it’s not like just surrendered, OK, God show me wherever and just leave me.
30:01: It’s like, no, I’m gonna show him do my half, and God, you do your half, and God always does his half.
30:05: So like, you do your half, and the other half is matched, and then you follow the yellow brick road all the way to Emerald City.
30:12: I also think that like your example of having to let people you love so much in your company go, I think it’s so easy to want to take all that on.
30:20: But at the same time too, that’s your standing in your truth of what is true in the moment, and it’s also for them to work.
30:27: So you’re also holding the mirror for them up on how they respond or how they take it.
30:31: I think it’s so easy when you’re a business owner, you have employees or and you care so much and it’s people you love, it’s so easy to want to take all that on your shoulders.
30:40: But that’s also a great opportunity to let go and, and realize that we’re all facilitating lessons for each other all the time in all dynamics.
30:50: And I think in those moments, that’s another example of creating even greater resilience for you and for them.
30:56: In those moments where you’re, you want to just be like, I’m so sorry.
31:01: Can we hold this guilt and hold this shame when in reality you’re holding the mirror for them too to be like, OK, you’re now giving them a layer of confidence of like, well, I can find something that’s aligned with me now, right?
31:10: Everyone is going into their avenues.
31:13: Yeah.
31:13: You’re so well said and that’s like, it’s such a valuable and important perspective that you’ve clearly learned through your journey and and I think that’s so important to to to learn that perspective too.
31:23: And and and that was something that was so presently throughout every conversation was like, OK, this is also a gift I’m giving this person, and a lot of times it’s like, OK, you know, I’m setting them free in a big way, and there’s gonna be something else for them and and and I had that to the point where it was never where where it made it a lot easier to to not try to take everything on.
31:39: Even the venture capitalists or even the million dollars, when you’re like, I’m sorry, I can’t give you back your million dollars.
31:44: Imagine the lesson for them on that end, you know, of having to be.
31:48: Yeah, right, I have to be unattached because.
31:51: That’s the that’s what happens when you and you.
31:54: It’s funny because I think it’s easy not to realize we’re all holding these lessons for each other.
31:59: Right.
31:59: And we don’t have to carry it.
32:00: That’s so that’s there’s a relief that I was the we’re all just walking home at the end of the day.
32:05: And we talk about it a lot because we’re people and it’s so easy to hold so much of that.
32:13: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably the hardest, one of the hardest things for me was that.
32:18: I, I sold this product and this brand, like I was the face of the brand, right?
32:22: I mean, I was spamming everybody’s IG feeds with the ads and everything.
32:25: It was so funny, the amount of times that people be like, I’ve seen you on my Instagram ads before.
32:29: I was like, yep, that’s me, sorry about that.
32:31: But you know, I put my face on there.
32:33: I, you know, this was, this was a reflection of me, and this is another thing around that identity and and and taking that on, but when we when we went out of business, like I was off Instagram for a month, mostly because of the hate mail I was getting.
32:46: Like I got so much mail, like I was I was I knew I was gonna get some, but like, I was also the face and the target that people went after, so like, I mean, it wasn’t so much like there’s a lot of pissed off people understandably so, but customer standpoint, but there was, there was probably I would say like probably 10, maybe a dozen people that like really lashed out, like spammed my whole thing or sharing my stuff.
33:07: This guy is a fraud, you’re, you’re staying on the health and wellness community, you know, fuck you, you spin.
33:13: I got called a spineless weasel.
33:14: That was fun, it’s a new one.
33:15: Yeah, and emails, texts, LinkedIn messages, like a few people went like really crazy.
33:20: I’m gonna make it my goal to make sure that whatever you do next fails and people know who you really are, right?
33:25: How did you deal with that?
33:26: Yeah, how did you deal with that?
33:27: That’s, what?
33:29: Oh yeah, you get that sinking cry?
33:32: I mean, like I mean that was that’s the first.
33:40: I think yeah, that’s to talk about.
33:42: I really don’t think there’s, I think you have capacity to deal with that, but still.
33:46: For sure.
33:46: Oh yeah, it hits it hits and it hurts.
33:48: And it’s on your consciousness and and and it was until I was able to work through it and to be able to like find that other perspective, right, and to feel into like, where’s the other perspective here, because this doesn’t feel good.
33:59: What a true letting go because I’m sure there’s a part of you that just wants to be like, that’s not me, like see me for who I am.
34:06: This is just a, you know, like, and I think about like I also want to be done.
34:09: Yeah, I think at that point too like I wonder like I would probably get to a place like I don’t want to deal with this.
34:14: Is the hardest time of my life.
34:16: I just like when you’re like now just like hitting me harder.
34:22: That would also be hard.
34:23: Yeah, so I mean I felt all that and then there’s a few perspectives that I have that I’ve, you know, that I’ve hung on to that help a lot with it, so I can share some of those perspectives and one of them was.
34:33: Have you guys met Chad or no, he’s on a chat, you met Chad, OK, yeah, he’s a, he’s a he’s in the beam of light.
34:39: He’s an energizer bunny.
34:40: He’s energizer bunny, yeah, amazing, and he is sunshine.
34:44: Yes, he’s sunshine mixed with golden retriever energy.
34:49: Yeah, and, and so he’s he’s one that I’ve kept like a literally daily tight loop with as we’ve been going through this together and and keeps me on that on that wavelength and and the first thing he said was, was like.
34:59: That guy is probably like having the worst day of his life for him to send that, like, his, his wife is probably like, he’s not getting laid at home, like, you know, he’s probably in a shitty situation for him to send a message like that, like, that sucks, like, so that’s one perspective, and I was like, wow, OK, he’s like before you respond, cause this was actually before we announced going out of business, this was just an angry customers we would have from time to time, but nothing crazy, but so this was just like run in the mill angry customer reaching out to us, reaching out to me directly.
35:25: And I’m just thinking about the fact you’re writing back.
35:28: So on that note, our our business is closed and this this was, this was even well before that and, and so he was just like, before you respond, just remember I was like, good, good, good, good, good thought.
35:38: And I had another friend who took that a level higher and she told me about a horrible customer situation she was dealing with.
35:43: And someone shared with her the perspective of how would you respond if you knew that God was also in this person?
35:49: I was like, that’s a good one.
35:51: So I just responded in a really like, you know, that land for a second, how would you respond to this if you knew God was also this person and this was a mirror for you too.
35:58: So I responded in a very high road way and very, you know, sticking to my guns way and And he responded back, and it totally disarmed him, and he responded back, sorry, I’ve had a hard week, we just buried my mom this week.
36:09: Wow.
36:10: And I was like, oh my God, like thank you God for that experience and that interaction right there to remind me that like when someone reaches out and someone like is throwing their shit at you, it’s not your shit, it’s a reflection of what they’re going, cause can you imagine writing an email to someone that’s like nasty like that, where it’s like, it’s one thing to write like a Wrongly written email and get your point across.
36:28: Another thing to be like, call them names and to like to curse them out, right?
36:32: So that that that’s one perspective and like, OK, what if God is in this person too?
36:36: How would I handle that, right?
36:38: But then that’s all pre-business when I had to respond.
36:40: Now in the post-business world, right, where it’s like this is just hate mail.
36:44: The other perspective that Chad Shats just like, I’m jealous, you got haters, man.
36:48: That means you’re doing something like Katt Williams says, if you don’t.
36:52: haters, you’re doing something wrong.
36:53: That’s right.
36:54: Shout out Katt Williams, we know it.
36:56: So that that was another perspective of like, OK, cool, like I’ve done something worthwhile to where people have a perspective or opinion about it.
37:02: Like think about like, even, you know, even Gandhi would have haters.
37:07: I mean, lots of haters, even the most amazing haters, right?
37:12: Like you think about like you have haters, even the most amazing people have haters, so.
37:17: One of the things my mentor shared with me that helped me because I was like, I wanna like for these people, like I want to respond, I wanna, I wanna to justify myself.
37:23: I want them to know.
37:24: And he said, you know, it’s not your job to change someone’s perception of you.
37:28: So true.
37:28: And, and if you try to do that, like, think about how much work you would have to do to get that person to have because they have a very clear perception of you right now.
37:36: And if you want to change that, like, think about how much energy time and work will have to go in to actually change that.
37:41: Like you’re not gonna.
37:42: Is it worth it?
37:43: Is it worth it?
37:44: Is it worth it because the people that you like and do you care about this person’s perception of you because for the people that you really do care about, like, you know, they know you for who you are and like, like you two both sent me the most amazing sweet text message and like all it was 99.9% of just most overwhelming wave of support when we made the announcement their business was shutting down.
38:03: I got 100, like over 150 text messages from friends and people, hey.
38:07: I’m so sorry to hear the news.
38:09: I love you, you know, I’m here for you.
38:11: Like, if some people they want above and beyond and and how they were there to support.
38:14: It’s like, those are the people I care about.
38:15: They know me, they know my intention going into this, they know what why I was doing this, they know what I did and the lengths that we went to to make sure we shut this down right with integrity, to make sure we didn’t leave our customers high and dry.
38:25: It’s like, they, they know the people that care know, and that’s all that matters.
38:29: So not having to try to change someone’s perception of you, that’s huge, and And just and just moving forward and moving on and also remembering that like people have a short term memory.
38:37: It’s like people like they’ll move on, they get angry.
38:41: Thank you to TikTok for that and yeah, that’s a good part of the short energy attention.
38:46: I think it’s hard because I think something that comes up for you as you’re saying that is like, there’s a lot of safety in other people understanding.
38:54: And when people don’t have insight into what you said, like, you just said like, I’ve worked so hard.
38:59: I did everything I could to keep this pet business going and just people just don’t know it.
39:04: Yeah.
39:04: They really don’t know.
39:05: They have no idea what your mornings look like.
39:08: kinds of conversations.
39:09: You had so with out in the morning.
39:11: No one knows about the inner like the amount of advice you see like, like you just decided to close and it was like, We wanted this.
39:20: I didn’t want this, but people just don’t take the time to think about those things.
39:24: I think they’re just to your point, just caught up in their own emotional experience and they’re just like, I feel this way, I’m gonna say it, versus like, well, what do you think the other person is going to.
39:32: And like it, like as you said, you said something about like, what if God is in that?
39:36: What if people gave you that same perspective, right?
39:39: But it’s hard, but I know that if I give that people perspect, if I can give that people perspectively by example, then maybe more people can can can reciprocate that or can have that as well or can can take that.
39:50: Or it’s an opportunity for them to learn it.
39:52: Exactly, exactly.
39:53: I think it’s also by the way.
39:55: Yes.
39:55: Thank you.
39:56: It’s also the ego that wants to be liked by everyone and accepted and seen for who I am.
40:01: And again, it’s like not our responsibility to make anyone see us for who we are.
40:05: We just have to, I think that’s something we talk about on here is that’s the hardest part of when you show up fully expressed and authentic.
40:11: You really, you have to just accept that people are gonna misperceive you.
40:15: Yeah, or not get you, get you.
40:18: And it’s not your responsibility to change it.
40:21: , you know, one thing I want to start transitioning into is like, how has it been going through the transition and kind of figuring out like, what is next?
40:29: Especially like how much time have you given, I’m so curious, like how much space do you think about it often?
40:33: Do you just allow yourself to show up?
40:35: What does that look like?
40:36: So work in progress and it evolves every day cause we’re still right now wrapping up the end until the end of this month we’re still getting moved out of our office space and Finishing, liquidating the rest of the stuff and, you know, and tying up the loose ends, it’s another thing, they don’t talk about it much, but it’s like shutting down a business is hard and expensive, like so much work, so much work that goes into it, where it’s like, and and there’s this kind of full circle, like circle of life in the beginning, it’s like, it’s just me and my co-founder, we’re taking out the trash and we’re like shipping out boxes and at the end, we’re taking out the trash and shipping out boxes and like cleaning up after everybody else’s mess, which is what you sign up for.
41:10: It’s like.
41:11: You get the rewards, high risk, high reward, and so going through is very humbling as well of going through this period and being like, you know, and, and seeing the, you know, seeing the downside of it, and what happens when it can go wrong.
41:23: But for me, so as really there was for the for the last month and a half, it’s been very just make it to the end of the day, like just take it one day at a time because there’s all of these unknown variables or these last couple months, but in end of October is when we made.
41:37: Announcement and, and so from then was like, OK, there’s there’s mountain of things that we need to do that we need to figure out one of those was we have a secured creditor that we have to figure out how we can work with to have them not come after us and sue us or have us personally have to go bankrupt to pay them out.
41:53: We need to figure out how to get out of our office space, we need to figure out how to to make this happen, this happen, right?
41:57: like you have this, it’s overwhelming, it’s like, OK, one thing at a time, let’s just line it up, knock it down, one thing at a time.
42:03: And it did become a little bit.
42:04: Easier in a sense because we knew this is where we’re going.
42:07: The the goal is to wrap this up and to to wind it down.
42:10: Whereas it was even more challenging before where you’re like still trying to save it and but it’s like, you don’t know which way you can go and you’re kind of in this like, that was that was some of the toughest times, but then it’s like, all right, there’s an end in sight, we know this is finite.
42:22: There’s a there’s a Robin I would say it all the time.
42:24: There’s a limited number of tough conversations we have left, like, there’s there’s a limit to it, right?
42:28: And so we can handle it.
42:29: It’s not this unknown.
42:31: You know, nebula of things that we have to do.
42:33: It’s just like there’s a limit, so we just line it up, knock it down.
42:36: So really after I would say in the last couple weeks is when it’s felt like really the last 2-3 weeks is where it’s felt like the unknown variables and the scary stuff and the high risk stuff have become known and have become, have started to close off.
42:49: And so with those energy streams closing off, now all of a sudden it’s started to open up energy streams to open in other areas for myself and to start to feel.
42:57: To like, OK, what is next?
42:58: What is this next chapter look like?
42:59: What do I want to do?
43:00: One of the things I just caught myself in real time last week, and this is another mentor, as a theme of this conversation is like all these mentors and people around me because that’s everything.
43:07: Another mentor was saying that, cause I felt like as this was starting to wind down, I’m like, OK, now I haven’t starting to have this time and space, like, let me fill it, let me fill it very quickly, like, let me get busy, let me go sign clients, let me go bring an income, like, come on, let me fill it.
43:19: And it was a good gut check, a little hello, as he says, it’s like this.
43:22: a little hello for you to like sit with it, and you know, you’re almost there, but like sit with it and sit in some of that discomfort and don’t rush and protect your energy, so.
43:31: My theme recently has been, let it blossom, allow it to blossom, allow it to unfold, and thankfully I’m in a very amazing opportunity and position where I can do that and I can and I have a little bit of space and time where I don’t have to jump back into like right away get a full time job so to bring an income right now, I can let it land.
43:48: And let the river shape me and let it flow.
43:52: So that has been a really good gut check of just like protect my time, my energy, because again, as we said in the beginning, I have a blank canvas right now, and I, I don’t know one in my life again, I’ll have this time and space, so like, I’m gonna be very present through the holiday season here with my family, and spend some time with my niece and nephews and just like allow myself to downshift and down regulate after sprinting for 3, 3+ years.
44:12: I mean, and before that, when I was doing my last ventures, like, so to be able to kind of let it land and allow it to blossom and and that’s the energy I’m bringing in and already with that there’s exciting things and ideas, and there’s no shortage of opportunities, which is awesome.
44:24: It’s just a matter of like giving myself the time and space and and for me, one of the things that feels good is, I mean, there’s there’s really kind of three things that I’ve been feeling into that feel good for me in terms of what’s next, and one is continuing.
44:36: to facilitate experiences, so events, retreats, workshops, stuff of that nature, that lights me up, continue to do that.
44:44: Another one is continue to have inspiring conversations like this one here and learn and storytell, which is, which is all podcast for me, so really excited to revamp and refocus on on getting back behind the mic and and sharing on my, my voice on my podcast, so that feels really good to me and then.
45:00: And then helping people solve problems, whatever that looks like, and so that’s kind of what I’m looking at in terms of this first chapter.
45:07: I have some travels coming up in the first part of the year as well.
45:09: I’m gonna be gone for 6 weeks, 3 of those weeks off the grid in the Himalayas, so.
45:13: Oh yeah, that’s right.
45:15: Yeah, cool.
45:15: I’m like, I know, I don’t need to rush into and and I felt myself, I’m like, OK, cool, like, OK, I can do these things to bring it in income and I can fill my and I was like, OK, good gut check, let me like maybe do one of those things.
45:25: Right now, like, let me just take it slowly and and then ramp back up and be OK with coming out of the water after riding these waves and like sitting on the sand for a sec.
45:35: I know that the waves are still there and they always will be there.
45:37: Wow, yeah.
45:38: How do you feel like all this entire experience has allowed, like in what ways have you become more your authentic self, your fully expressed self, like, how has it impacted?
45:48: Yeah,, great question.
45:50: I think twofold.
45:52: One is being able to be more real raw and vulnerable, like, I think that the thought of having a super honest conversation like this a year ago would have been like, no, that’s that doesn’t feel aligned like that, like I feel like I need to present myself as more polished, or I want to be more of a leader, which means like being more together or or suc synonymous with success.
46:11: So, whereas I think it’s actually the opposite of that.
46:13: I mean being a leader means opening.
46:15: and leading with vulnerability and being real and being authentic and aligned.
46:19: So and expressed, and that’s what I, I feel like this has given me that opportunity, both in my personal life with friends and family, they’ll be able to let more people in and and and be supported by other people, and to be able to ask for help and support, was something I I’ve had a very hard time doing and in my life, be able to like ask when I need help or ask like, hey, this actually is really important to me, like, can I, can I get your help with this?
46:40: So that has helped shaped me into being more my authentic expressed self, and then second part of that too is that like, I also can do hard things, and that is part of who I am and that like what I’m sharing hopefully sounds and feels embodied cause it is, like, it’s not just like, oh yeah, like I’m optimistic and things are working out for me.
46:57: It’s like, I feel that and I believe that and like, pressure is a privilege.
47:00: You either bursts pipes or makes diamonds and damn it, I’m a diamond, you know, I’m not gonna let this burst my pipes and and and just feel that energy and that Like, like, cool, I’m not scared of this, like, I can step up to the plate, like I’m gonna step up to this challenge, doesn’t make it mean it’s easy, especially because it’s not easy, like, I’m gonna step in that batter’s box, like, watch me.
47:18: I’m gonna do this, I can step up to that.
47:20: And so there’s this, there’s this energy and there’s this strength that I found both from the surrendering and the opening up piece, and also from that like step up to the plate piece that that feel really important to me for me to talk about.
47:34: to share about and to lead by example because like we all we all deal with the challenges, we all go through it.
47:39: That’s one thing that makes us all human together is like we’re all going through some shit.
47:43: Life swings a left hook and we get caught on the chin with it and we’re getting knocked down, like that’s the point.
47:48: So I, I feel like for me those the the the kind of the polarity and dichotomy of those two things and embodying those two things in a very just a real way, like there’s no filter anymore, like, you know what I mean?
47:59: I don’t have to put on a filter of like, it’s just me, yeah.
48:02: And that has allowed me, it is allowing me I mean it’s still very unfolding in real time.
48:06: That is, that’s that’s allowing me to step more into, I feel like my my fully expressed self.
48:10: The one thing I think about all the time when I talk about this, the one thing that we all had in common and tends to be the last thing that we talk about.
48:16: Oh, give me some of that.
48:19: And it’s emotions, it’s the struggles, it’s the challenges, and I just like wanna to challenge our human being entirely because I’m like, we all have this.
48:28: In common.
48:29: And I think every time that you share, I know there’s someone on this podcast that’s like listening and they’re like, Oh thank God he said that because yeah, I hear that.
48:35: And that’s how we relate.
48:36: So the person that was before us, she said something so beautifully.
48:39: She’s like, the way that people learn is through relatability.
48:43: Yes, storytelling, through storytelling through la.
48:45: She said that and I was like, You’re so right, right?
48:48: Like we don’t learn.
48:49: I mean, yes, we read a book and we can learn data and information, but it’s really the things that are like, I see.
48:54: Me and that.
48:55: Mhm.
48:55: Yeah.
48:56: Which goes back to we are all God, and God is in all of us.
48:59: So, of course, like, why would we resist being vulnerable or messy or authentic to other people?
49:05: You’re just talking to another version of yourself.
49:07: That’s so true.
49:08: What was that line one more time?
49:10: I always say that the the last thing that we always talk about is that they know we have most in common.
49:16: That’s good.
49:16: Yeah, that one’s coming with me.
49:18: Yeah.
49:18: Is that, is that, yeah, is that, is that a?
49:20: OK, great.
49:23: OK, so I don’t know if I like I, yeah, yeah, of course I will.
49:26: That’s great.
49:27: That’s so true.
49:28: struggles.
49:29: We have an ego, we have these beliefs.
49:30: Right.
49:31: We have thoughts that take us down crazy spirals.
49:34: I just never want to say them, and I always think about that, like the more that we can leave, that’s why I think the podcast is here, right?
49:40: To be holy expressed, to be with the messiness, because in the messiness is where we can create connection.
49:45: It’s, I guess the highlights are so good, being the leader, being the strong person, and I get that and we need duality, but I’m like, we’re forgetting the main piece.
49:53: You know, we want to change the conversation of, I’m so tired of, what do you do?
49:58: It’s like, who are you?
49:59: Because you know you we do all kinds of things.
50:01: That doesn’t define who you are as a person or like, how are you?
50:05: Really you just want them to say good and move along, but it’s like, how’s your day going?
50:09: Yeah, exactly like.
50:11: Yeah, I don’t know.
50:12: My car broke down today, something’s different.
50:14: I’m like, oh, I just feel so much more connected to you like everything’s fine.
50:18: You can feel the energy block you off.
50:20: So it’s true.
50:21: One question that we ask all of our guests is where in your life, this can be life, relationships, or business, doesn’t have to be about business.
50:29: Do you are are you craving to be more fully expressed?
50:33: Where my life am I craving to be more fully expressed?
50:37: I think, I think now in in my business, like in this transition period, I think that, and I think this is the opportunity and what I’m excited about what’s next is I have the opportunity to, you know, shift the form of what the function has been and will always be, which is I want to help people.
50:54: It’s it’s just that simple and it is like I want to help people and I’m here to help people with what I’ve gone through and what I’ve learned and what I can share.
51:00: And so for me the form that that was taking has been.
51:02: Taking was was selling a tub, that was a product.
51:05: And now is a blank slate where that form is shifting and it’s going to shift, and there’s an opportunity to shift it, but the function is still the same.
51:13: But so where I feel like I’m looking to be more fully expressed is in the business itself and in the form that will follow the function.
51:23: Does that make sense?
51:24: So that the business can be a more fully expressed.
51:28: Version of of of me personally and who I am and the things that align with me.
51:32: I have a question.
51:34: What from Edge or this experience or this season are the pillars that you’re taking with you that you want to be more fully expressed?
51:41: Are the pillars different?
51:42: Are they the same?
51:43: I think the pillars, I think, yeah, I think I think they’re similar in terms of pillars, but the, the product or the offer itself is different, so like that offer.
51:53: is what I want to be more fully expressed, and then also in the in the storytelling and in the the teaching of I could in this conversation and other conversations, like I want to shed light into this, like I want to share all of the details of the, the quote unquote failure and the messiness, like that is really important and that feels more fully expressed, where it’s like before there’s almost kind of relief that comes down when it’s like you fail.
52:14: And one thing that I’ve always loved that I say all the time is sometimes God Brings us our biggest fears to show us that we had nothing to be afraid of all along.
52:22: And when you face some of your biggest fears and you move through them, like, and now it’s like, well, that no longer holds a fear over you.
52:27: You’ve been through that, no matter what that is, and I I find that true in conversations I have with people that, you know, have lost a loved one or someone’s just like, OK, the greatest fear just happened and I’m, and hey, I’m still here.
52:37: there can be sometimes a relief that comes with that.
52:39: I like that didn’t kill me, that didn’t take me down.
52:42: So I, I I’m, I’m looking forward to sharing more and being more fully expressed and, and like, and the rawness and the messiness of it of everything, whereas before it was like had to had it kind of together and tight because we’re also in an industry where it’s an emerging industry, we’re competing with other people.
52:57: Like we can’t share, excuse me, we can’t share the full details or the full behind the scenes of like strategy, what’s working, what’s not, like we have to keep that and for for good reason, right?
53:07: But you have to kind of keep that.
53:08: You know, within your team in private and and behind this package and and so now it’s just kind of like bets are off, like I, you know, I’m sharing everything like here I am, exactly, and that feels good and that feels feels really good.
53:22: What’s interesting, I think just as a final perspective is, you know, you were selling a tub, but really you’re selling the ability for people to meet their own edge while you were meeting your edge.
53:32: And then you were like, that’s like, oh, you think you’re meeting your edge, we’re gonna take you all the way to like you want edge?
53:38: OK, I’ll give you a head.
53:39: Sure, here you want edge.
53:42: I know, and it’s so it’s so funny, but it’s always like, God’s always just like this wasn’t gonna be challenging enough for you, you know, like, here’s your real challenge.
53:50: Like the first time, I don’t know if you guys know this, but the first time I trained for full Ironman a year ago, I Completed my first full Ironman, but 5 years before that, I had trained for my first full Ironman, and I was trained up, I didn’t, you know, I, I was doing double days.
54:03: I was in incredible shape.
54:04: I was doing double days.
54:05: I was going for a certain time, 9 months of training, ready to go, ship my bike out to Florida, that week of race, plane tickets booked, everything is ready to go.
54:13: The last training run of my entire program, 9 months, the last run, I get a micros stress fracture in my shin.
54:21: And I have to make the very difficult decision to pull out of the race.
54:24: Oh, I didn’t know that.
54:25: That’s crazy.
54:26: And I just, I mean, I was a wreck.
54:28: I was a wreck because it was also like, can I power through it, but it’s like, what are the long term damages and potentially right and And I just remember being, it was, it was one of the toughest things and toughest decisions I had to come to, and one of the things and one of the perspectives that stuck with me and I got and I reflected on that too through that experience was completing the Ironman triathlon.
54:45: Like, I signed up for this cause I wanted a challenge, it was gonna push me and that’s what I asked for, that’s what I literally signed up for.
54:50: And the Ironman became not that challenge anymore cause I was ready for it.
54:53: I had no hesitation, no fear.
54:54: I knew I was gonna do it and it was time.
54:56: And all of a sudden I was like, all right, here’s your real challenge.
54:59: So it’s, I think it works that way too, where it’s just like, you know, you get what you ask for at the end of the day, but the the way that it looks may be different than you expected.
55:07: Yeah, well, thank you.
55:09: Thank you.
55:10: This is awesome.
55:11: I feel great.
55:13: I love,, I feel, feel present.
55:15: I feel energized.
55:16: I feel like I don’t want to stop this conversation right now we could talk for hours.
55:21: I know like with Iron Man and stuff.
55:23: What else should we talk about?
55:24: And we’ll have to collab on an event so people can come and honestly that sounds good because we do these live interviews for people to hear, so.
55:32: And, and I want both of you individually on the podcast too in the new year I’m getting up and running with it.
55:40: So thank you.
55:41: Thanks for having me.
55:41: Thanks for providing this platform, this opportunity to share.
55:45: I was gonna say I’m just such big fans of both of you is just you guys are absolute powerhouses in the best way, and I’m just very grateful to to be to call your friends and to be collaborators in this world and this lifetime.
55:57: It’s like ourselves are like, yeah.
55:58: Yeah, OK, there you are.
55:59: It’s like when you’re at a party, OK, got you.
56:01: Yeah, yeah, it’s so funny too because when I first met Josh, I loved I loved you.
56:07: I was like, that’s just inviting.
56:11: It’s like a very inspiring.
56:13: It’s like I’m here with more.
56:18: I’m here and I like it I like it.
56:20: And that we met and then you guys knew each other.
56:24: I mean, that’s what I love.
56:25: I mean, obviously we live in San Diego, but there’s a community and there’s communities within the communities and you just like slowly start to just call in.
56:32: Yeah, really, yeah, because I, we met first years ago this random event during COVID, yeah, full circle.
56:44: Glad you’re still here, we’re all still here.
56:46: I ain’t going.
56:48: I’m not leaving.
56:49: So tell people if they want to follow the next iteration of Josh Josh Church.
56:54: Where would they find you?
56:54: Instagram I would say is probably the best spot to keep up with the the hops on my website, Joshuaeanchurch.com, or just my Instagram at Joshuaean Church.
57:03: I’m sure you’ll link to it all in the show notes, but say that’s the, that’s a spot fall along the journey, reach out, say hi, love these electric connections and.
57:11: So that’s it.
57:13: Can’t wait to see what you do next.
57:15: Thank you so much for tuning in.
57:16: We really appreciate you being here.
57:18: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
57:24: Also, we would love to hear from you.
57:26: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
57:33: We are here to support you and encourage you.
57:36: See you on the next one.
0:03: We are your hosts, Samantha and Karenna.
0:06: This is a show where we invite you into your fullest expressed self and life, relationships, and business.
0:11: We believe that if you crave more, you are meant for more.
0:14: There is room for all of us to be fully expressed.
0:17: Along with the show, we’ve created a virtual community to connect you with fellow listeners.
0:22: Make sure to check out the fully expressed community membership.
0:25: You’ll find the link to join in the show notes and on our website.
0:28: So excited to see you there.
0:30: Enjoy this new episode.
0:34: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Fully expressed podcast.
0:39: We are so stoked on our guest today.
0:42: It’s one of our very dear friends, Josh Church.
0:45: He is a performance coach, entrepreneur, and Forbes 30 under 30 honoree dedicated to helping people stress less, achieve more, and have more fun.
0:55: As the previous co-founder of Edge Theory Labs, he has helped create the world’s first iceless ice bath.
1:02: Combining innovation and portability.
1:04: He’s also the host of the Find the Others podcast, which is simply incredible and truly captures Josh’s energy and purpose in this world.
1:13: Wow.
1:14: Hello, so fun.
1:16: I love being in a room with you too.
1:18: Welcome, how are you?
1:20: I’m doing well today.
1:21: Yeah, I’m doing well.
1:22: It’s the seasons changing, like holiday season is here for us now, and I love it.
1:27: So good.
1:28: Yeah.
1:28: Thanks for being here with us.
1:29: Yeah, yeah.
1:31: So we’re excited to drop in because you’ve been in quite the transition.
1:37: I have been, yeah, and I feel like it’s rare to have such page turning moments in life, like for me right now, this is a massive one, Saturn’s Return, it’s happening.
1:47: We love it, but we’re here for it, we’re here for it, but for, for me, like this is definitely like oh it’s, it’s funny too cause at the start of 2024, I mean, we were together at the start of 2024 and And my intention, what I thought in 2024 was me was completely different.
2:00: And I feel like I’ve learned a lot now to just be like, and my, my grandma always used to say man plans and God laughs, like, just to, you know, you show up, do your part, surrender to the to the outcome, because it all is working out for you eventually, but for me it’s been this kind of rare opportunity where like my whole life is flipped upside down now.
2:17: It’s like the apartment that I was living in, I moved out.
2:19: Of the office that I was going into, we’re just clearing out of the business, the thing that I was putting my energy into all the time every day is now done.
2:27: So it’s like, whoa, there’s this blank canvas and this blank slate of like, what’s next?
2:31: And that question can be kind of scary of like what’s next?
2:34: And everyone’s know what’s next?
2:35: It’s like it can be kind of anxiety ridden and scary or it can be exciting of like, what’s next?
2:40: So I very.
2:41: and feeling into the like, what’s next, like, exciting, blank slate, what a beautiful time.
2:45: I don’t have a family or I’m not in a relationship right now, like I’m as light and as lean as I’ll probably ever be for the rest of my life.
2:52: So it’s, yeah, it’s it’s a unique transition time and I’m really, really aiming to be intentional about that.
2:58: You’re in this optimistic.
3:00: Yeah.
3:01: Well, let’s see it back to.
3:03: Yeah, so for those that don’t know, maybe we can tell them a little bit what’s right there for sure.
3:09: So about 3 years ago I started Edge Theory Labs with my cousin, we co-founded it and and as you said in the intro, we, we built the first portable all in one ice bath, so it didn’t exist before we built it, which is really cool, and we brought something to the world that didn’t exist and brought this healing modality of cold water immersion to a lot of people, which was a passion of mine.
3:28: And and when we started off, it was just like, we wanted to help people, right?
3:31: And we wanted to do a cousin project during COVID, we were like tinkering in his garage and we were, we were making a prototype and And we wanted to just help I wanted to share this tool with people that changed my life, and over 3 years we had helped over 4000 people, got in the tub and homes of 4000 people, generated over 20 million in revenue, had a team of 15 people at one point, like, worked with some of the most amazing celebrities, athletes, and thought leaders out there, and just I found myself time and time again in in rooms and in places where I’m like, what is happening?
4:02: Like, how is this in my life right now?
4:03: So it was like this just tremendous, there was this magic of kind of energy around and if we felt that the team felt that it was just kind of this magic, and especially from the outside, it seemed like we’re doing quite well and 20 million revenue, that’s amazing.
4:14: However, there’s a that’s a very capital intensive business and the the we ran into some pretty serious manufacturing issues that required a lot of money for us to fix, and anytime you do a first generation hardware type of product, there’s a lot of tweaking and iterating and improving and and so we, because we were the first ones to do.
4:30: This as well, like we had some of those teething problems, and so we were constantly improving the unit, and the way that it worked is we didn’t have any patent protection with it too, so, you know, manufacturers started ripping it off very quickly, which is expected, it’s kind of the way China works, just happens that way.
4:43: And so all the other people that came later benefited from our missteps and our stumbling of building the unit.
4:50: And so then the market got pretty saturated and we our sales started coming down, our overhead got high.
4:56: We built it for growth, like after our 2nd year and we did over 10 million in revenue, we’re like, all right, like we’re gonna take the shot here, we’re gonna build for growth, we raised a little bit of money and we built our team and our infrastructure to build for growth.
5:07: And when you do that, if growth doesn’t come, you’re in trouble.
5:10: But there’s a shot that you take, it was a strategic decision that we made, you know, in hindsight, we would have done things differently, but I stand by that decision.
5:17: It was like, cool, like we’re gonna build on this momentum here, we’re gonna go for this, and then Mark got saturated, we ran into some issues that cost us.
5:22: A lot of cash and sales stagnated and our overhead was high, even though we cut, we cut, we cut.
5:28: Our budget was built for a $15 million a year budget, and when you’re coming into half of that, it doesn’t really work out.
5:34: And when you don’t have deep VC funding, you string together a couple months where you’re losing cash.
5:39: We started hemorrhaging cash, and then all of a sudden you run out of cash, and we had to shut down.
5:43: So we were forced to get to that point where we had to shut down and and do an orderly liquidation to make sure that we could.
5:49: Pay as much of our debts back as possible, make sure our team was taken care of, so that was like really the last 4 months has been that shutdown process, which is wild.
5:57: A yearmark to my cousin Rob had his baby in August.
6:01: He’s a first time dad, he had his daughter in on August.
6:04: It was literally the week she was born when this started going down and we’re like, I think we’re gonna have to shut down the business, but she’s 4 months old now, it’s beautiful.
6:12: Damn.
6:13: She’s like the the thing that got burned.
6:15: Yeah.
6:15: Yeah, that’s right.
6:18: That’s absolutely, births and deaths, it’s, it’s what happens and, and so these last 4 months, I mean, we’ve talked about this, but it’s been some of the most challenging time of my life for sure, hands down, full spectrum.
6:30: I’ve had to face some of my greatest fears, which is your business shutting down, right?
6:35: Something you have such an identity towards as well.
6:37: I mean they’ll go through an ego death with that, having to go through difficult conversations of telling.
6:42: Team members that you love, my best friends I worked with, hey, like your roles can, like we have to, we’re shutting things down or we’re having to let go of people that I loved working with having to tell a debt, a debtor, a secured creditor that we had that gave us a million dollars dollar credit line, like, hey, we can’t pay you back, having to tell investors, hey, we lost a million dollars of your money.
7:01: Not fun conversations.
7:02: I’m gonna tell customers, hey, I know you just spent $5000 on this product and like, we’re out of business, we’re not gonna be able to support you with this, we, we.
7:09: We worked in to make sure we had ways they could get support outside of us, but all of those stages and it was just like, all at once, right?
7:15: It’s like, oh, this is a mountain we have ahead of us.
7:18: I’m so curious.
7:19: I wanna take it back, so we’ll talk about the journey, cause he said like you kind of started that set yourself up for growth.
7:25: Right.
7:25: And then all of a sudden the numbers weren’t coming in.
7:27: How do you keep yourself up float even at that time?
7:29: Because yes, the end was probably like a huge thing, but there’s also seems like this compound effect of resilience and capacity.
7:36: that you uphold.
7:37: How did you get through that, even before the end, right?
7:40: How did you?
7:41: How did you show up in the morning and you like, I’m gonna keep showing up showing up.
7:45: With a lot of help from some friends, with a lot of help from my team, and really my team, our team was just tremendous in that, and we were all together and my the people that I work closest to, my, my co-founder, specifically my, my, my head of sales, Chad, and my head of marketing cat who are literally two of my best friends.
8:02: Entire world.
8:03: It was just every day we’re like, figure it out and it was every day it was like sending each other Abraham Hicks videos like we’re sending each other motivational stuff.
8:11: It’s like we’re we’re just focusing on showing up and controlling the controllables that became our mantra through 2024, was like, show up, control the controllables, and it would go in waves too, or be waves where it’s just like not seeing these like the results are not coming, but like, stay focused on it and we go waves is like, OK, it’s working, amazing, right?
8:27: OK.
8:28: And it’s just this roller.
8:29: And that’s entrepreneurship.
8:30: That’s the startup world.
8:31: I’ve had experience in the startup world before.
8:32: I know that’s the case.
8:34: And as you both know, the shit is not for the faint of heart or the weakest stomach, say it all the time, like there’s this allure, there’s this whole the glamour around having your own business, being your own boss, all this stuff, and it’s like, yeah, OK, but there’s this whole other side of it, and, and if you’re fortunate, and we always remind ourselves too, it’s like, pressure is a privilege.
8:51: Like we’re in a privileged position to be able to be here where it’s like, we have this, like we have a shot and And we’re building resilience through this process, like you said, like, is this amazing parallel to the cold water itself.
9:03: It’s like we know how to handle breathing and the discomfort and the challenges, like this is what we this is what we’re about, like, let’s embody this and let’s use this for growth, and so I could not on my own, do that by myself.
9:14: I could not show up, like you would.
9:16: The battery would be drained very quickly.
9:18: So it was a it was a bad, I mean, all 2024, really in January, as we started to see in Jan, Feb, March 21, we started to come in a little bit under budget.
9:25: We’re like, OK, maybe we should reassess things here, and we started doing that really in January, and we just kept cutting, we kept refining, we kept refocusing, restructuring, so it was an amazing exercise, but to answer your question, It was the daily conversations, the support of like staying up, taking care of myself, making sure my health wasn’t being compromised.
9:45: It was like it was doing all those things and focusing on, again, we said, control the controllables, do what’s in your, do what you can do, focus on those inputs you put in, and then let God take care of the rest.
9:54: And one of the prayers that I would say all the time is, God, please lead me where you’re where I’m needed most.
10:00: God please need me to lead me to where I’m needed most, and I trust you to lead me to where I’m needed most, as long as that’s here with an edge.
10:06: Amazing.
10:07: I want it to be, but I can’t understand your bigger plan and your bigger picture, and so I’m surrendering my faith to you to lead me to where I’m needed most and know that I know for a fact that what I’m going through right now is preparing me what I’ve asked for ultimately, and to be in the position to serve, because I’ve signed up for service.
10:21: We made that decision a long time ago, ladies.
10:23: We made that decision a long time ago, like, we’re here to serve, we’re here to do things, and we have to kind of hands up, surrender to the form that that takes and just be committed to the mission.
10:32: And it’s such a beautiful perspective because I feel like in a year from now, in 5 years from now, like you’ll be able to look back every, I really do think every single thing we experience is leading us to that next thing.
10:43: And the cool part is you’ve, you know, as someone who knew you right when you started this, which is so cool, even before, yeah, and seeing you.
10:51: It started like in Iceland, right?
10:52: When you did your retreat in Iceland, which is so cool.
10:54: I remember that and being like, I wanna go to that, how fun.
10:57: Also like hell no, walking naked through they’re walking in their skivvies through the snow, and I was like, that’s really awesome and also terrifying.
11:06: I love that for you.
11:07: I love that for you.
11:08: Let me know how that goes.
11:10: But then watching you build this and seeing you in a lot of ways, not that you were ever a boy before, but becoming a man in so many ways, you know, and sitting here in front of you and seeing a totally evolved different person, and I feel like.
11:25: I feel like it’s, it really is preparing you.
11:28: I’ve always thought you’re here absolutely to be a leader and to step into something that’s so much bigger than yourself, and how do you get there when you are able to sit in like the ultimate discomfort and have these conversations with other adults that probably feels, and we’ll, I’m sure we’ll talk about it like terrifying, and then overcoming that and coming out the other side and being like, OK, God has a plan.
11:51: It’s so beautiful.
11:52: And I’m so curious about that, to peel that back a little bit.
11:55: What did you do when you wanted to shrink?
11:57: Or like, what did you do when like your nervous system was like, no, I need to get the fuck out of here, or like, I don’t want to let anyone into my world because I also can imagine like, how did it feel asking people for support or really telling people like this is what’s really going on so that you could be emotionally supported, not just like the company or the business, but like you as a leader.
12:16: Yeah, it’s a great question.
12:17: It comes back to the relationships, comes back to family, and And it, and this is also this was also part of, I think like a karmic loop for me and a part of a big lesson for me was to be able to like open up and like let people in because I’m typically the one that’s there supporting other people.
12:31: And so I’m kind of coming with this like, you know, togetherness, right, like togetherness.
12:35: And so being able to kind of like take the armor off and to like allow people in and to see the real vulnerability as I’m going through, even to people close around me was something that was was new for me and some Work that I had to and and I’m still practicing, right?
12:49: But, but that was, that was directly related to the, to the support, right, it was equal parts support to that challenge of how challenging it was to open up the support was there, and so it comes back to my family, it comes back to my, my, my close friends, like the few people that are like my people, right, that I was able to really be there in the raw with that that helped me through some of those tough days when it was just like, you know, I’m, I can think of a handful of people right now are just like, they were just there and they were there for me.
13:14: And they were of course happy to be there for me.
13:16: They wanted to be there for me, but that, and then I think that it’s just when you have that bigger perspective, and when you have that relationship with God, for me, it made all the difference, because it was just constant, it was like I had to be, I had to be showing up.
13:31: I was putting so much of my effort and energy into showing up, which is where it needed to be, so that I could, because also it’s like, I got a team, I got a show, I got an organization to lead.
13:39: I have people out there that are counting on me and Like, to me though, the way that I think this is just the way that I’ve operated, it’s the way that I, I, I play sports, it’s just that mentality that I have is just like good, like, I’m, I’m here for that opportunity, like give me the ball, 4th and 1, give me the ball.
13:55: I’m putting in the end zone, you know, and, and, and so there’s that time for that masculine energy too, where it’s just like, my, my shoulders are strong enough, I can take the load, like, come on, let’s go.
14:03: But then there’s that, there’s that balance too where it’s like you can’t just do only that, otherwise you’ll burn out and you’ll wither away.
14:10: There’s a duality.
14:11: in that because you’re talking so much like, OK, I need to be emotionally supported.
14:14: I need to be honest about what’s going on, but I also need to show the fuck up.
14:17: That’s right.
14:17: And I also need to lead the other people because you had a company.
14:21: You had people underneath you that are looking to you.
14:24: For like, Josh, what am I going to do?
14:26: What are we doing?
14:27: How are you feeling today?
14:28: What’s the energy and you’re carrying that energy in that room, but then also creating spaces it seems like to be held and what was really going on internally.
14:36: Exactly.
14:36: And the other thing that helped get me through a lot was a lot of fish one on one burritos.
14:40: Favorite comfort food, a lot of fish 101, yeah, exactly, yeah, one of my friends got me a $100 101 burrito gift certificate gift and you know, exactly, it was like this is the greatest thing ever.
14:54: So a lot of fish on burritos and, and honestly like a lot of too, a lot of like just chill time of like, I’m gonna put on Netflix and I’m gonna like tune out for a second here, right?
15:02: And and knowing and and being OK with that, and, and not necessarily numbing out but like being OK with like, yeah, OK, like this is what I need right now and And but and then getting ready to show up for the next day, and I mean, the remembering, I think why I started this and why I decided to do this, and what the mystery mission is about, like, I always felt like this is an opportunity to lead by example here, because this is an opportunity to bring the mission to to even deep more deeply embody this mission, which is the whole idea is like, life is hard and we Get thrown challenges.
15:36: How do you respond to those challenges?
15:37: Do you brace?
15:38: Do you white knuckle your way through it?
15:40: Is your breath shallow, or do you embrace?
15:42: Can you practice embracing and shifting into that embrace, and can you have that regulated nervous system as you show up, so this is what this is what we preach, right?
15:49: This is the message, this is the mission.
15:52: God gave you your answer.
15:53: Yeah, like it it sounds like that because like he literally created ice, he fell in love with the ice.
16:00: Yeah be in with the eye and then he’s like, yeah, God’s like, let’s see, you’re gonna need this.
16:02: Yeah, like it literally, it’s just all I know, it makes so much sense.
16:12: I was just gonna say too that I think so often we think of challenge as the difficult parts, but I really think even as you were mentioning how you were in these rooms with people that you looked up to or that you thought were above you and you That also is a challenge, maybe a better challenge that we want to have instead of the other side, but the fact that you’ve learned now all of that spectrum, not just when it’s the hardest, but also when that is another opportunity that many people want to shrink and feel unworthy of being in the room with those people.
16:41: And, and that is another opportunity that you had to really stand in your power.
16:45: It definitely it definitely was for sure and it was like it was so funny, but it was.
16:50: Such a regular basis and what a gift to have such a regular basis where I was like feeling those like, you know, the, the nervousness or things it’s like I’m not, you can feel right you feel in your body it’s like, OK, I’m sitting in my car.
17:00: I’m like I’m about to go knock on the door of like, you know, this athlete that I’ve grown up watching, or like I’m gonna go meet with Dana White of the UFC or I’m like I’m going to hang out with Mike Posner or you just like I need these pieces just like the Jonas brother.
17:12: I’m like, OK, am I really doing this right?
17:13: OK, and just feeling that.
17:15: My body and, and I get it’s so funny, but it’s like just like anything, you get used to it, right?
17:19: You, you practice, you take enough reps, you get used to it.
17:21: So I got used to being able to like vulnerably go in front of people or or pitch the product or or go meet someone that I looked up to or and and that also provided a realm of also deeper inquiry of like, OK, well, why do I feel this is just another person, that’s another human, like, why do I feel like why should I feel inferior by any means, but there’s always that complex too.
17:40: And that was a theme throughout, especially with the conversations, some of the difficult conversations, like one of the things I, I say, and I, and I, I honestly, I thank God for, is that I have and I was just reflecting this in my journal just the other day, I was like, I have gotten really good at being able to have difficult conversations.
17:57: And I have been able to get really good at increasing my capacity for handling things through this process.
18:04: I’m like, what a beautiful quality, what a, what a gift.
18:06: And like, don’t we all, like, what don’t we all want that?
18:08: If you could say, hey, do you want to have the capacity to handle hard things?
18:11: Do you want to have the ability to have difficult conversations?
18:13: Every single person would say like, yes, I want that.
18:15: And then if I were to say, OK, well, here’s the thing to that’s gonna build that capacity, you’re gonna be like, no, I don’t want it, right?
18:21: I think even, I don’t think people know that they want that, but I also think that people want to be able to show up the way that you did.
18:27: They want to create the business.
18:28: They want to be able to sell their product.
18:29: They want to be in front of the people in the rooms that they want to be.
18:33: And then you tell them, well, you gotta to do these things, and they’re like, I don’t wanna do that.
18:36: Just kidding.
18:37: Yeah, but what a gift that you created such a huge capacity.
18:41: And that’s like what I really want to highlight, like the entire season or era.
18:45: Of edge.
18:46: It’s called fucking great, but it’s been creating capacity for this beautiful thing.
18:55: Yeah, it’s like your soul set yourself up to really go through this process so that you, yeah, so they’re running the show we’re running the show like we talk about this all the time, you know, our soul came here to learn specific lessons.
19:09: And we’re meant to learn those lessons.
19:10: So in the next lifetime we get to just build on top of that, and you, your soul specifically looked for this for a specific reason.
19:17: And I was like, you can handle it.
19:20: So if you’re not going to handle it, you’re gonna come back and learn it again.
19:23: Yeah, I’m done with this one.
19:25: I’m ready to go to 3rd grade grade I’m done with that’s what I feel too is like we’re all just, we’re all in kindergarten out here like we’re all in what are we doing?
19:32: We don’t even know.
19:33: Yeah, float on a rock in space, but I do view that these last 3 years as a massive gift and, and, and there was a big shift that happened that I think I want to highlight too, which was that in the lens of looking at this as as a success or as a failure, right, like the business failed, if you look at it, right?
19:47: We’re no longer in business, we, we don’t have a product to sell, we don’t have a team, the business failed, but whether how I look at that as a failure just purely depends on the lens of the way I’m looking at that through, and There was a lot of hard resistance kind of on that download as you’re like trying to avoid facing the reality that this might not work, and we may have to close this, and one of the things that I wrestled with a lot was because was that we had we had we were it felt like we were so close, you know, we had, we had so many things that are so hard to do that we had together.
20:16: We had this incredible team of people.
20:18: They could have a huge capacity for growing even more.
20:21: We had like this community of people that were, they were following us and they were they were using our product.
20:26: Every day they were, we, we had a brand, like we had, we had a mission, we had a Y, like we had all these things together, we had a proof of concept, we had, we were selling millions of dollars of product like we had all these things and it was like all the pieces were right there and it was, it felt like it was so close to being like something that like this could be one day a household brand or this could be, this could be a couple $100 million a year business.
20:47: This could be a billion dollar brand.
20:48: Like, I saw that vision so clearly and it felt like we were so close, and so you can imagine holding on to that and seeing that and seeing what the future and.
20:55: Having those visions, it’s like, now all of a sudden seeing the downward spiral and confronting the mortality of this, like, that’s really, really hard, but and that was causing so much of that inner resistance and like the inner challenge was what I was creating, cause life is, you know, 5% what happens is 95% how we’re interpreting and responding to it.
21:13: And so I was interpreting and responding that way, that that was resistance and then all of a sudden it’s like as we were kind of on the comedown, I just had this clarity moment of like, what if Edge wasn’t here to be my billion dollar brand, like What if Edge was here to be my MBA program and to be my 3 year, to be the the foundation, to be like, what if Edge was supposed to be like, OK, here’s a 3 year period where you’re gonna see it all, you’re gonna see the incredible growth, you’re gonna learn as much as you possibly can, you’re gonna do a fundraising round, you’re gonna work with some of your celebrity heroes, you’re gonna build a team, you’re gonna work with your friends, you’re gonna build the capacity, you’re gonna do all these things, and then it’s gonna have a hard close at the end of it, and you’re gonna be done after 3 years.
21:51: I would have been like, Well that sounds good, right?
21:54: I’d be like, OK, well, maybe that’s what it is.
21:57: So as soon as I shifted the the lens to look at Edge from like, this could have been a big business and could have been the thing to this was exactly what it needed to be, like, this could have been the 3 year learning MBA program that will set me up for what’s next, then it all of a sudden shifted that emotional charge.
22:17: I want to peel that back a little bit because I think there’s so many entrepreneurs out there that live a little.
22:22: but we need a little lulu, you know, we got to you got to be like, I’m gonna have the XYZ vision.
22:29: But then there’s this reality that sits in and that your business is not growing, your business is not transitioning, you’ve been doing the same thing.
22:37: For some people, they’ve been doing the same thing for 5 more than 10 years, just holding on.
22:42: So you came to this thought I gave you a new perspective.
22:46: It sounds like your nervous system rested in that.
22:47: I was like, I could, I can absorb that.
22:49: So you felt this like.
22:50: when you heard that.
22:51: But like, what was really the deciding factor?
22:54: Like, I’m like if anyone’s listening, and they’re internally struggling with like, do I keep going?
23:00: What do I do?
23:01: Well, that’s a personal decision for every single person.
23:03: I don’t think there’s like a right answer, but I’m just so curious what was yours.
23:06: Yeah, well, for us, we didn’t really have a choice because we literally were running out of money and it was like we’re not gonna be able to make payroll, you know, next month if based on we we can’t order more inventory, we don’t have enough cash to order more inventory and we’re not gonna make.
23:19: Payroll, so like we didn’t have a choice.
23:21: We’re like, and we don’t have, if I had more personal funds to be able to like float the business or invest more in the business, I probably would have, but I I didn’t, and so it was like, OK, well, we don’t, we’re left with no and we tried fundraising, which was like we’re left with no options to where we have to, which challenging, but also kind of a blessing because it made the decision easy where it wasn’t like something that was kind of just like hanging along there, or especially if you’re in another type of business, if you’re a solopreneur, you have like a really low overhead business, and you’re just kind of yourself and And you can kind of keep hanging on to something, where it’s like it was just very clear it’s just like, oh look, we don’t have a choice, so we have, you know, at a board meeting where the unanimous decision for dissolution was was there and it was like, yeah, this is just, this is the process and you’ve reached the end of the road.
24:04: As you’re saying that, I also think about the identity though, attached to the business because I think Yes, like you had the blessing that literally you couldn’t financially sustained the people that ran the business.
24:14: You couldn’t financially hold it up.
24:15: So the numbers like you had clear data that was like, you know, but for some people, like, they pushed it, they go bankrupt, they take out a lot of credit cards.
24:26: They promise things to a lot of people and say like, what’s gonna happen?
24:30: So I’m so curious like how did you also let your identity detach from egg?
24:35: I think what keeps people in is like, this is me.
24:38: And they hold on.
24:39: Yeah.
24:40: So did you have to go through that process?
24:42: Thankfully, like that was something I was working through throughout the entire time and through the come up even, which made it really and just based on some of the personal development work I’ve done in the past of like and and what my mentor I worked very closely with as well, like, you know, it’s if you if you take credit, then you take blame, right?
24:58: But one of the lines I love is take no credit, take no blame, stay focused on your chief aim.
25:02: Stay focused, right?
25:03: Like, if you, if you’re willing to take credit for something, then you expose yourself to being able to take blame for something and feel criticism.
25:09: But if you don’t take credit, then you don’t take the blame.
25:12: So it’s a very hard thing to do, but like I was something I practiced a lot through like, through the initial success is just like, this is not like there’s clearly something happening here that’s greater than just me.
25:21: It’s like, yes, we have this idea, yes, we put these strategies, yes, we’re selling this thing right, like we’re doing a lot, but like, there’s something else greater here that’s that’s doing this, and so, like, I’m not, I can’t take full credit for this, right?
25:31: And I think that’s also when you live a God-centered life or you believe in a higher power or something bigger than yourself, then you know, it’s like, you know, and some of your strokes of inspiration, it’s like, we’re just channeling at best, like we’re just we’re just a vessel to for for a higher power to work through.
25:44: And if you really believe that and feel that, then like, that’s not yours to take credit for the like it’s a co-creation, like, yeah, of course, there’s your part in showing up and doing, but I really practiced that throughout.
25:55: Otherwise, I feel like I’d be in a complete ego death spiral like identity.
26:00: Is of myself and and also I knew too very early on that like, this was, this was just an expression, this was one part of who I am as Joshua Church, right?
26:09: This is just one, this is a thing that I do, and it became like, and and I had to have and thank God I had mentors and people close to me that could catch me on some of those things and be like, OK, well, careful, your identity is getting a little wrapped up there, to be like, OK, cool, this is something I do.
26:21: That’s why it was really important for me to continue doing my podcasts even through this, even though it didn’t make sense, and I was like, I should probably shut it down or just even if it was only 10 episodes I did last week.
26:29: year to like still do something to where it was like, this is, there’s more to me than just edge theory labs, because it would be very difficult otherwise.
26:38: So I, I think I was really, it was a lot of the work in my previous life, right?
26:42: And then in the previous life before Edge that set me up and to do it, which, which is hard too when you see the hockey stick growth, like, and you go, you go on a rocket ship and, you know, you do 10 million in your first year and a half in business, it’s like that’s so uncommon, right?
26:55: Like you just, you don’t see that and so it, it did take a lot of Work, but a constant reminder to like, stay, stay humble with that, and also know that this was, you know, it’s just, it’s it’s, it’s just one aspect of who I am, and my little nephew, when I see him, he doesn’t know what I do, he doesn’t care what I do, right?
27:10: It’s not about that.
27:11: He loves me for me and for who I am is Uncle Joshy, like, that’s, that’s what it’s about, right?
27:16: And, and that’s the way it is for for me in in life as in general.
27:20: That’s amazing.
27:21: I love that you like God lead.
27:22: What did you say?
27:23: God’s leading, God’s leading like the entire time, like when you’re talking about.
27:27: This is just like, just hearing you speak and like this interview in general, like you are just so stable on your faith and letting him guide you.
27:35: And I think it’s so easy when your egos running the show where you’re like, my egos use it this way, and he’s like, dude, I got a completely different plan.
27:43: You’re not even open to seeing the other.
27:46: And like there’s another door that’s clearly here for you and it seems like you were able to connect.
27:50: To that often, which really dropped into like, oh, there is another door here that I meant to.
27:55: I don’t know what’s on the other side of the door, but I know that I’m meant to walk through it.
27:59: Exactly, and I can’t see it and I won’t be able to see it for some time, but like I know there’s something here.
28:04: I don’t make no mistakes.
28:05: I don’t make no mistakes.
28:07: And and that’s the way I have enough evidence in my life personally from my experience, especially through the hardship to be able to see that.
28:14: Say that confidently, and so it’s the same thing, and again, all this this all these things in perspectives don’t make it easier when you’re sitting in a room and you have to have the conversation to say, hey, your livelihood no longer has a place here, you know what I mean like we we can’t keep paying you or we’re going out of business, like, it doesn’t make any of that easier, but it gives it makes it worthwhile.
28:32: It gives you, it gives you the purpose to get through it because you know that the only way out.
28:37: is through, and you have to go through this.
28:39: And like, I, again, I, I had it on Post-it notes, I said it all the time, God, please lead me to where I’m needed most.
28:46: You have that perspective.
28:47: I don’t.
28:47: And if that means letting go of the way that I thought it was gonna be, which was running this business for years to come and earning millions, impacting a lot of people through that process and being able to like, I saw that whole path light up and it was lighting up and that was the path I was literally on.
29:01: And, but God, if there’s a better way, like, that’s not for me to decide.
29:05: You have the, you know, our inner being, our higher higher higher souls, they have that perspective that we just don’t in this 3D right now.
29:12: So it’s that there’s that strength and surrender of like, OK, all I can do, and then there’s a relief in that is all I can do is focus on what I can control.
29:20: Like that’s it.
29:20: It’s literally that simple.
29:22: It’s just like it’s so simple but so hard.
29:25: It’s just like, but I find such relief in that I just like, all I gotta do is show up.
29:28: I mean, it just happened to me the other day.
29:29: I sent out.
29:30: A proposal for this consulting work I’m doing, I’m like, and I was just like, I sent it off and I felt so good.
29:33: I was like, this is so fun because I’m not stressing about this at all, because if it’s meant to be, it’s going to be, and if it’s not, then like God’s God’s rejection is your protection.
29:42: Like, if it’s not, then great, fine, and I, and there was gonna be something else my energy needs to go towards.
29:46: But I put my time and energy and showing up and sending that proposal out and putting the energy in towards it, so I felt good that like I could send that out and be good regardless of the outcome.
29:56: And in living in that surrendered state.
29:58: Where it’s not like just surrendered, OK, God show me wherever and just leave me.
30:01: It’s like, no, I’m gonna show him do my half, and God, you do your half, and God always does his half.
30:05: So like, you do your half, and the other half is matched, and then you follow the yellow brick road all the way to Emerald City.
30:12: I also think that like your example of having to let people you love so much in your company go, I think it’s so easy to want to take all that on.
30:20: But at the same time too, that’s your standing in your truth of what is true in the moment, and it’s also for them to work.
30:27: So you’re also holding the mirror for them up on how they respond or how they take it.
30:31: I think it’s so easy when you’re a business owner, you have employees or and you care so much and it’s people you love, it’s so easy to want to take all that on your shoulders.
30:40: But that’s also a great opportunity to let go and, and realize that we’re all facilitating lessons for each other all the time in all dynamics.
30:50: And I think in those moments, that’s another example of creating even greater resilience for you and for them.
30:56: In those moments where you’re, you want to just be like, I’m so sorry.
31:01: Can we hold this guilt and hold this shame when in reality you’re holding the mirror for them too to be like, OK, you’re now giving them a layer of confidence of like, well, I can find something that’s aligned with me now, right?
31:10: Everyone is going into their avenues.
31:13: Yeah.
31:13: You’re so well said and that’s like, it’s such a valuable and important perspective that you’ve clearly learned through your journey and and I think that’s so important to to to learn that perspective too.
31:23: And and and that was something that was so presently throughout every conversation was like, OK, this is also a gift I’m giving this person, and a lot of times it’s like, OK, you know, I’m setting them free in a big way, and there’s gonna be something else for them and and and I had that to the point where it was never where where it made it a lot easier to to not try to take everything on.
31:39: Even the venture capitalists or even the million dollars, when you’re like, I’m sorry, I can’t give you back your million dollars.
31:44: Imagine the lesson for them on that end, you know, of having to be.
31:48: Yeah, right, I have to be unattached because.
31:51: That’s the that’s what happens when you and you.
31:54: It’s funny because I think it’s easy not to realize we’re all holding these lessons for each other.
31:59: Right.
31:59: And we don’t have to carry it.
32:00: That’s so that’s there’s a relief that I was the we’re all just walking home at the end of the day.
32:05: And we talk about it a lot because we’re people and it’s so easy to hold so much of that.
32:13: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, probably the hardest, one of the hardest things for me was that.
32:18: I, I sold this product and this brand, like I was the face of the brand, right?
32:22: I mean, I was spamming everybody’s IG feeds with the ads and everything.
32:25: It was so funny, the amount of times that people be like, I’ve seen you on my Instagram ads before.
32:29: I was like, yep, that’s me, sorry about that.
32:31: But you know, I put my face on there.
32:33: I, you know, this was, this was a reflection of me, and this is another thing around that identity and and and taking that on, but when we when we went out of business, like I was off Instagram for a month, mostly because of the hate mail I was getting.
32:46: Like I got so much mail, like I was I was I knew I was gonna get some, but like, I was also the face and the target that people went after, so like, I mean, it wasn’t so much like there’s a lot of pissed off people understandably so, but customer standpoint, but there was, there was probably I would say like probably 10, maybe a dozen people that like really lashed out, like spammed my whole thing or sharing my stuff.
33:07: This guy is a fraud, you’re, you’re staying on the health and wellness community, you know, fuck you, you spin.
33:13: I got called a spineless weasel.
33:14: That was fun, it’s a new one.
33:15: Yeah, and emails, texts, LinkedIn messages, like a few people went like really crazy.
33:20: I’m gonna make it my goal to make sure that whatever you do next fails and people know who you really are, right?
33:25: How did you deal with that?
33:26: Yeah, how did you deal with that?
33:27: That’s, what?
33:29: Oh yeah, you get that sinking cry?
33:32: I mean, like I mean that was that’s the first.
33:40: I think yeah, that’s to talk about.
33:42: I really don’t think there’s, I think you have capacity to deal with that, but still.
33:46: For sure.
33:46: Oh yeah, it hits it hits and it hurts.
33:48: And it’s on your consciousness and and and it was until I was able to work through it and to be able to like find that other perspective, right, and to feel into like, where’s the other perspective here, because this doesn’t feel good.
33:59: What a true letting go because I’m sure there’s a part of you that just wants to be like, that’s not me, like see me for who I am.
34:06: This is just a, you know, like, and I think about like I also want to be done.
34:09: Yeah, I think at that point too like I wonder like I would probably get to a place like I don’t want to deal with this.
34:14: Is the hardest time of my life.
34:16: I just like when you’re like now just like hitting me harder.
34:22: That would also be hard.
34:23: Yeah, so I mean I felt all that and then there’s a few perspectives that I have that I’ve, you know, that I’ve hung on to that help a lot with it, so I can share some of those perspectives and one of them was.
34:33: Have you guys met Chad or no, he’s on a chat, you met Chad, OK, yeah, he’s a, he’s a he’s in the beam of light.
34:39: He’s an energizer bunny.
34:40: He’s energizer bunny, yeah, amazing, and he is sunshine.
34:44: Yes, he’s sunshine mixed with golden retriever energy.
34:49: Yeah, and, and so he’s he’s one that I’ve kept like a literally daily tight loop with as we’ve been going through this together and and keeps me on that on that wavelength and and the first thing he said was, was like.
34:59: That guy is probably like having the worst day of his life for him to send that, like, his, his wife is probably like, he’s not getting laid at home, like, you know, he’s probably in a shitty situation for him to send a message like that, like, that sucks, like, so that’s one perspective, and I was like, wow, OK, he’s like before you respond, cause this was actually before we announced going out of business, this was just an angry customers we would have from time to time, but nothing crazy, but so this was just like run in the mill angry customer reaching out to us, reaching out to me directly.
35:25: And I’m just thinking about the fact you’re writing back.
35:28: So on that note, our our business is closed and this this was, this was even well before that and, and so he was just like, before you respond, just remember I was like, good, good, good, good, good thought.
35:38: And I had another friend who took that a level higher and she told me about a horrible customer situation she was dealing with.
35:43: And someone shared with her the perspective of how would you respond if you knew that God was also in this person?
35:49: I was like, that’s a good one.
35:51: So I just responded in a really like, you know, that land for a second, how would you respond to this if you knew God was also this person and this was a mirror for you too.
35:58: So I responded in a very high road way and very, you know, sticking to my guns way and And he responded back, and it totally disarmed him, and he responded back, sorry, I’ve had a hard week, we just buried my mom this week.
36:09: Wow.
36:10: And I was like, oh my God, like thank you God for that experience and that interaction right there to remind me that like when someone reaches out and someone like is throwing their shit at you, it’s not your shit, it’s a reflection of what they’re going, cause can you imagine writing an email to someone that’s like nasty like that, where it’s like, it’s one thing to write like a Wrongly written email and get your point across.
36:28: Another thing to be like, call them names and to like to curse them out, right?
36:32: So that that that’s one perspective and like, OK, what if God is in this person too?
36:36: How would I handle that, right?
36:38: But then that’s all pre-business when I had to respond.
36:40: Now in the post-business world, right, where it’s like this is just hate mail.
36:44: The other perspective that Chad Shats just like, I’m jealous, you got haters, man.
36:48: That means you’re doing something like Katt Williams says, if you don’t.
36:52: haters, you’re doing something wrong.
36:53: That’s right.
36:54: Shout out Katt Williams, we know it.
36:56: So that that was another perspective of like, OK, cool, like I’ve done something worthwhile to where people have a perspective or opinion about it.
37:02: Like think about like, even, you know, even Gandhi would have haters.
37:07: I mean, lots of haters, even the most amazing haters, right?
37:12: Like you think about like you have haters, even the most amazing people have haters, so.
37:17: One of the things my mentor shared with me that helped me because I was like, I wanna like for these people, like I want to respond, I wanna, I wanna to justify myself.
37:23: I want them to know.
37:24: And he said, you know, it’s not your job to change someone’s perception of you.
37:28: So true.
37:28: And, and if you try to do that, like, think about how much work you would have to do to get that person to have because they have a very clear perception of you right now.
37:36: And if you want to change that, like, think about how much energy time and work will have to go in to actually change that.
37:41: Like you’re not gonna.
37:42: Is it worth it?
37:43: Is it worth it?
37:44: Is it worth it because the people that you like and do you care about this person’s perception of you because for the people that you really do care about, like, you know, they know you for who you are and like, like you two both sent me the most amazing sweet text message and like all it was 99.9% of just most overwhelming wave of support when we made the announcement their business was shutting down.
38:03: I got 100, like over 150 text messages from friends and people, hey.
38:07: I’m so sorry to hear the news.
38:09: I love you, you know, I’m here for you.
38:11: Like, if some people they want above and beyond and and how they were there to support.
38:14: It’s like, those are the people I care about.
38:15: They know me, they know my intention going into this, they know what why I was doing this, they know what I did and the lengths that we went to to make sure we shut this down right with integrity, to make sure we didn’t leave our customers high and dry.
38:25: It’s like, they, they know the people that care know, and that’s all that matters.
38:29: So not having to try to change someone’s perception of you, that’s huge, and And just and just moving forward and moving on and also remembering that like people have a short term memory.
38:37: It’s like people like they’ll move on, they get angry.
38:41: Thank you to TikTok for that and yeah, that’s a good part of the short energy attention.
38:46: I think it’s hard because I think something that comes up for you as you’re saying that is like, there’s a lot of safety in other people understanding.
38:54: And when people don’t have insight into what you said, like, you just said like, I’ve worked so hard.
38:59: I did everything I could to keep this pet business going and just people just don’t know it.
39:04: Yeah.
39:04: They really don’t know.
39:05: They have no idea what your mornings look like.
39:08: kinds of conversations.
39:09: You had so with out in the morning.
39:11: No one knows about the inner like the amount of advice you see like, like you just decided to close and it was like, We wanted this.
39:20: I didn’t want this, but people just don’t take the time to think about those things.
39:24: I think they’re just to your point, just caught up in their own emotional experience and they’re just like, I feel this way, I’m gonna say it, versus like, well, what do you think the other person is going to.
39:32: And like it, like as you said, you said something about like, what if God is in that?
39:36: What if people gave you that same perspective, right?
39:39: But it’s hard, but I know that if I give that people perspect, if I can give that people perspectively by example, then maybe more people can can can reciprocate that or can have that as well or can can take that.
39:50: Or it’s an opportunity for them to learn it.
39:52: Exactly, exactly.
39:53: I think it’s also by the way.
39:55: Yes.
39:55: Thank you.
39:56: It’s also the ego that wants to be liked by everyone and accepted and seen for who I am.
40:01: And again, it’s like not our responsibility to make anyone see us for who we are.
40:05: We just have to, I think that’s something we talk about on here is that’s the hardest part of when you show up fully expressed and authentic.
40:11: You really, you have to just accept that people are gonna misperceive you.
40:15: Yeah, or not get you, get you.
40:18: And it’s not your responsibility to change it.
40:21: , you know, one thing I want to start transitioning into is like, how has it been going through the transition and kind of figuring out like, what is next?
40:29: Especially like how much time have you given, I’m so curious, like how much space do you think about it often?
40:33: Do you just allow yourself to show up?
40:35: What does that look like?
40:36: So work in progress and it evolves every day cause we’re still right now wrapping up the end until the end of this month we’re still getting moved out of our office space and Finishing, liquidating the rest of the stuff and, you know, and tying up the loose ends, it’s another thing, they don’t talk about it much, but it’s like shutting down a business is hard and expensive, like so much work, so much work that goes into it, where it’s like, and and there’s this kind of full circle, like circle of life in the beginning, it’s like, it’s just me and my co-founder, we’re taking out the trash and we’re like shipping out boxes and at the end, we’re taking out the trash and shipping out boxes and like cleaning up after everybody else’s mess, which is what you sign up for.
41:10: It’s like.
41:11: You get the rewards, high risk, high reward, and so going through is very humbling as well of going through this period and being like, you know, and, and seeing the, you know, seeing the downside of it, and what happens when it can go wrong.
41:23: But for me, so as really there was for the for the last month and a half, it’s been very just make it to the end of the day, like just take it one day at a time because there’s all of these unknown variables or these last couple months, but in end of October is when we made.
41:37: Announcement and, and so from then was like, OK, there’s there’s mountain of things that we need to do that we need to figure out one of those was we have a secured creditor that we have to figure out how we can work with to have them not come after us and sue us or have us personally have to go bankrupt to pay them out.
41:53: We need to figure out how to get out of our office space, we need to figure out how to to make this happen, this happen, right?
41:57: like you have this, it’s overwhelming, it’s like, OK, one thing at a time, let’s just line it up, knock it down, one thing at a time.
42:03: And it did become a little bit.
42:04: Easier in a sense because we knew this is where we’re going.
42:07: The the goal is to wrap this up and to to wind it down.
42:10: Whereas it was even more challenging before where you’re like still trying to save it and but it’s like, you don’t know which way you can go and you’re kind of in this like, that was that was some of the toughest times, but then it’s like, all right, there’s an end in sight, we know this is finite.
42:22: There’s a there’s a Robin I would say it all the time.
42:24: There’s a limited number of tough conversations we have left, like, there’s there’s a limit to it, right?
42:28: And so we can handle it.
42:29: It’s not this unknown.
42:31: You know, nebula of things that we have to do.
42:33: It’s just like there’s a limit, so we just line it up, knock it down.
42:36: So really after I would say in the last couple weeks is when it’s felt like really the last 2-3 weeks is where it’s felt like the unknown variables and the scary stuff and the high risk stuff have become known and have become, have started to close off.
42:49: And so with those energy streams closing off, now all of a sudden it’s started to open up energy streams to open in other areas for myself and to start to feel.
42:57: To like, OK, what is next?
42:58: What is this next chapter look like?
42:59: What do I want to do?
43:00: One of the things I just caught myself in real time last week, and this is another mentor, as a theme of this conversation is like all these mentors and people around me because that’s everything.
43:07: Another mentor was saying that, cause I felt like as this was starting to wind down, I’m like, OK, now I haven’t starting to have this time and space, like, let me fill it, let me fill it very quickly, like, let me get busy, let me go sign clients, let me go bring an income, like, come on, let me fill it.
43:19: And it was a good gut check, a little hello, as he says, it’s like this.
43:22: a little hello for you to like sit with it, and you know, you’re almost there, but like sit with it and sit in some of that discomfort and don’t rush and protect your energy, so.
43:31: My theme recently has been, let it blossom, allow it to blossom, allow it to unfold, and thankfully I’m in a very amazing opportunity and position where I can do that and I can and I have a little bit of space and time where I don’t have to jump back into like right away get a full time job so to bring an income right now, I can let it land.
43:48: And let the river shape me and let it flow.
43:52: So that has been a really good gut check of just like protect my time, my energy, because again, as we said in the beginning, I have a blank canvas right now, and I, I don’t know one in my life again, I’ll have this time and space, so like, I’m gonna be very present through the holiday season here with my family, and spend some time with my niece and nephews and just like allow myself to downshift and down regulate after sprinting for 3, 3+ years.
44:12: I mean, and before that, when I was doing my last ventures, like, so to be able to kind of let it land and allow it to blossom and and that’s the energy I’m bringing in and already with that there’s exciting things and ideas, and there’s no shortage of opportunities, which is awesome.
44:24: It’s just a matter of like giving myself the time and space and and for me, one of the things that feels good is, I mean, there’s there’s really kind of three things that I’ve been feeling into that feel good for me in terms of what’s next, and one is continuing.
44:36: to facilitate experiences, so events, retreats, workshops, stuff of that nature, that lights me up, continue to do that.
44:44: Another one is continue to have inspiring conversations like this one here and learn and storytell, which is, which is all podcast for me, so really excited to revamp and refocus on on getting back behind the mic and and sharing on my, my voice on my podcast, so that feels really good to me and then.
45:00: And then helping people solve problems, whatever that looks like, and so that’s kind of what I’m looking at in terms of this first chapter.
45:07: I have some travels coming up in the first part of the year as well.
45:09: I’m gonna be gone for 6 weeks, 3 of those weeks off the grid in the Himalayas, so.
45:13: Oh yeah, that’s right.
45:15: Yeah, cool.
45:15: I’m like, I know, I don’t need to rush into and and I felt myself, I’m like, OK, cool, like, OK, I can do these things to bring it in income and I can fill my and I was like, OK, good gut check, let me like maybe do one of those things.
45:25: Right now, like, let me just take it slowly and and then ramp back up and be OK with coming out of the water after riding these waves and like sitting on the sand for a sec.
45:35: I know that the waves are still there and they always will be there.
45:37: Wow, yeah.
45:38: How do you feel like all this entire experience has allowed, like in what ways have you become more your authentic self, your fully expressed self, like, how has it impacted?
45:48: Yeah,, great question.
45:50: I think twofold.
45:52: One is being able to be more real raw and vulnerable, like, I think that the thought of having a super honest conversation like this a year ago would have been like, no, that’s that doesn’t feel aligned like that, like I feel like I need to present myself as more polished, or I want to be more of a leader, which means like being more together or or suc synonymous with success.
46:11: So, whereas I think it’s actually the opposite of that.
46:13: I mean being a leader means opening.
46:15: and leading with vulnerability and being real and being authentic and aligned.
46:19: So and expressed, and that’s what I, I feel like this has given me that opportunity, both in my personal life with friends and family, they’ll be able to let more people in and and and be supported by other people, and to be able to ask for help and support, was something I I’ve had a very hard time doing and in my life, be able to like ask when I need help or ask like, hey, this actually is really important to me, like, can I, can I get your help with this?
46:40: So that has helped shaped me into being more my authentic expressed self, and then second part of that too is that like, I also can do hard things, and that is part of who I am and that like what I’m sharing hopefully sounds and feels embodied cause it is, like, it’s not just like, oh yeah, like I’m optimistic and things are working out for me.
46:57: It’s like, I feel that and I believe that and like, pressure is a privilege.
47:00: You either bursts pipes or makes diamonds and damn it, I’m a diamond, you know, I’m not gonna let this burst my pipes and and and just feel that energy and that Like, like, cool, I’m not scared of this, like, I can step up to the plate, like I’m gonna step up to this challenge, doesn’t make it mean it’s easy, especially because it’s not easy, like, I’m gonna step in that batter’s box, like, watch me.
47:18: I’m gonna do this, I can step up to that.
47:20: And so there’s this, there’s this energy and there’s this strength that I found both from the surrendering and the opening up piece, and also from that like step up to the plate piece that that feel really important to me for me to talk about.
47:34: to share about and to lead by example because like we all we all deal with the challenges, we all go through it.
47:39: That’s one thing that makes us all human together is like we’re all going through some shit.
47:43: Life swings a left hook and we get caught on the chin with it and we’re getting knocked down, like that’s the point.
47:48: So I, I feel like for me those the the the kind of the polarity and dichotomy of those two things and embodying those two things in a very just a real way, like there’s no filter anymore, like, you know what I mean?
47:59: I don’t have to put on a filter of like, it’s just me, yeah.
48:02: And that has allowed me, it is allowing me I mean it’s still very unfolding in real time.
48:06: That is, that’s that’s allowing me to step more into, I feel like my my fully expressed self.
48:10: The one thing I think about all the time when I talk about this, the one thing that we all had in common and tends to be the last thing that we talk about.
48:16: Oh, give me some of that.
48:19: And it’s emotions, it’s the struggles, it’s the challenges, and I just like wanna to challenge our human being entirely because I’m like, we all have this.
48:28: In common.
48:29: And I think every time that you share, I know there’s someone on this podcast that’s like listening and they’re like, Oh thank God he said that because yeah, I hear that.
48:35: And that’s how we relate.
48:36: So the person that was before us, she said something so beautifully.
48:39: She’s like, the way that people learn is through relatability.
48:43: Yes, storytelling, through storytelling through la.
48:45: She said that and I was like, You’re so right, right?
48:48: Like we don’t learn.
48:49: I mean, yes, we read a book and we can learn data and information, but it’s really the things that are like, I see.
48:54: Me and that.
48:55: Mhm.
48:55: Yeah.
48:56: Which goes back to we are all God, and God is in all of us.
48:59: So, of course, like, why would we resist being vulnerable or messy or authentic to other people?
49:05: You’re just talking to another version of yourself.
49:07: That’s so true.
49:08: What was that line one more time?
49:10: I always say that the the last thing that we always talk about is that they know we have most in common.
49:16: That’s good.
49:16: Yeah, that one’s coming with me.
49:18: Yeah.
49:18: Is that, is that, yeah, is that, is that a?
49:20: OK, great.
49:23: OK, so I don’t know if I like I, yeah, yeah, of course I will.
49:26: That’s great.
49:27: That’s so true.
49:28: struggles.
49:29: We have an ego, we have these beliefs.
49:30: Right.
49:31: We have thoughts that take us down crazy spirals.
49:34: I just never want to say them, and I always think about that, like the more that we can leave, that’s why I think the podcast is here, right?
49:40: To be holy expressed, to be with the messiness, because in the messiness is where we can create connection.
49:45: It’s, I guess the highlights are so good, being the leader, being the strong person, and I get that and we need duality, but I’m like, we’re forgetting the main piece.
49:53: You know, we want to change the conversation of, I’m so tired of, what do you do?
49:58: It’s like, who are you?
49:59: Because you know you we do all kinds of things.
50:01: That doesn’t define who you are as a person or like, how are you?
50:05: Really you just want them to say good and move along, but it’s like, how’s your day going?
50:09: Yeah, exactly like.
50:11: Yeah, I don’t know.
50:12: My car broke down today, something’s different.
50:14: I’m like, oh, I just feel so much more connected to you like everything’s fine.
50:18: You can feel the energy block you off.
50:20: So it’s true.
50:21: One question that we ask all of our guests is where in your life, this can be life, relationships, or business, doesn’t have to be about business.
50:29: Do you are are you craving to be more fully expressed?
50:33: Where my life am I craving to be more fully expressed?
50:37: I think, I think now in in my business, like in this transition period, I think that, and I think this is the opportunity and what I’m excited about what’s next is I have the opportunity to, you know, shift the form of what the function has been and will always be, which is I want to help people.
50:54: It’s it’s just that simple and it is like I want to help people and I’m here to help people with what I’ve gone through and what I’ve learned and what I can share.
51:00: And so for me the form that that was taking has been.
51:02: Taking was was selling a tub, that was a product.
51:05: And now is a blank slate where that form is shifting and it’s going to shift, and there’s an opportunity to shift it, but the function is still the same.
51:13: But so where I feel like I’m looking to be more fully expressed is in the business itself and in the form that will follow the function.
51:23: Does that make sense?
51:24: So that the business can be a more fully expressed.
51:28: Version of of of me personally and who I am and the things that align with me.
51:32: I have a question.
51:34: What from Edge or this experience or this season are the pillars that you’re taking with you that you want to be more fully expressed?
51:41: Are the pillars different?
51:42: Are they the same?
51:43: I think the pillars, I think, yeah, I think I think they’re similar in terms of pillars, but the, the product or the offer itself is different, so like that offer.
51:53: is what I want to be more fully expressed, and then also in the in the storytelling and in the the teaching of I could in this conversation and other conversations, like I want to shed light into this, like I want to share all of the details of the, the quote unquote failure and the messiness, like that is really important and that feels more fully expressed, where it’s like before there’s almost kind of relief that comes down when it’s like you fail.
52:14: And one thing that I’ve always loved that I say all the time is sometimes God Brings us our biggest fears to show us that we had nothing to be afraid of all along.
52:22: And when you face some of your biggest fears and you move through them, like, and now it’s like, well, that no longer holds a fear over you.
52:27: You’ve been through that, no matter what that is, and I I find that true in conversations I have with people that, you know, have lost a loved one or someone’s just like, OK, the greatest fear just happened and I’m, and hey, I’m still here.
52:37: there can be sometimes a relief that comes with that.
52:39: I like that didn’t kill me, that didn’t take me down.
52:42: So I, I I’m, I’m looking forward to sharing more and being more fully expressed and, and like, and the rawness and the messiness of it of everything, whereas before it was like had to had it kind of together and tight because we’re also in an industry where it’s an emerging industry, we’re competing with other people.
52:57: Like we can’t share, excuse me, we can’t share the full details or the full behind the scenes of like strategy, what’s working, what’s not, like we have to keep that and for for good reason, right?
53:07: But you have to kind of keep that.
53:08: You know, within your team in private and and behind this package and and so now it’s just kind of like bets are off, like I, you know, I’m sharing everything like here I am, exactly, and that feels good and that feels feels really good.
53:22: What’s interesting, I think just as a final perspective is, you know, you were selling a tub, but really you’re selling the ability for people to meet their own edge while you were meeting your edge.
53:32: And then you were like, that’s like, oh, you think you’re meeting your edge, we’re gonna take you all the way to like you want edge?
53:38: OK, I’ll give you a head.
53:39: Sure, here you want edge.
53:42: I know, and it’s so it’s so funny, but it’s always like, God’s always just like this wasn’t gonna be challenging enough for you, you know, like, here’s your real challenge.
53:50: Like the first time, I don’t know if you guys know this, but the first time I trained for full Ironman a year ago, I Completed my first full Ironman, but 5 years before that, I had trained for my first full Ironman, and I was trained up, I didn’t, you know, I, I was doing double days.
54:03: I was in incredible shape.
54:04: I was doing double days.
54:05: I was going for a certain time, 9 months of training, ready to go, ship my bike out to Florida, that week of race, plane tickets booked, everything is ready to go.
54:13: The last training run of my entire program, 9 months, the last run, I get a micros stress fracture in my shin.
54:21: And I have to make the very difficult decision to pull out of the race.
54:24: Oh, I didn’t know that.
54:25: That’s crazy.
54:26: And I just, I mean, I was a wreck.
54:28: I was a wreck because it was also like, can I power through it, but it’s like, what are the long term damages and potentially right and And I just remember being, it was, it was one of the toughest things and toughest decisions I had to come to, and one of the things and one of the perspectives that stuck with me and I got and I reflected on that too through that experience was completing the Ironman triathlon.
54:45: Like, I signed up for this cause I wanted a challenge, it was gonna push me and that’s what I asked for, that’s what I literally signed up for.
54:50: And the Ironman became not that challenge anymore cause I was ready for it.
54:53: I had no hesitation, no fear.
54:54: I knew I was gonna do it and it was time.
54:56: And all of a sudden I was like, all right, here’s your real challenge.
54:59: So it’s, I think it works that way too, where it’s just like, you know, you get what you ask for at the end of the day, but the the way that it looks may be different than you expected.
55:07: Yeah, well, thank you.
55:09: Thank you.
55:10: This is awesome.
55:11: I feel great.
55:13: I love,, I feel, feel present.
55:15: I feel energized.
55:16: I feel like I don’t want to stop this conversation right now we could talk for hours.
55:21: I know like with Iron Man and stuff.
55:23: What else should we talk about?
55:24: And we’ll have to collab on an event so people can come and honestly that sounds good because we do these live interviews for people to hear, so.
55:32: And, and I want both of you individually on the podcast too in the new year I’m getting up and running with it.
55:40: So thank you.
55:41: Thanks for having me.
55:41: Thanks for providing this platform, this opportunity to share.
55:45: I was gonna say I’m just such big fans of both of you is just you guys are absolute powerhouses in the best way, and I’m just very grateful to to be to call your friends and to be collaborators in this world and this lifetime.
55:57: It’s like ourselves are like, yeah.
55:58: Yeah, OK, there you are.
55:59: It’s like when you’re at a party, OK, got you.
56:01: Yeah, yeah, it’s so funny too because when I first met Josh, I loved I loved you.
56:07: I was like, that’s just inviting.
56:11: It’s like a very inspiring.
56:13: It’s like I’m here with more.
56:18: I’m here and I like it I like it.
56:20: And that we met and then you guys knew each other.
56:24: I mean, that’s what I love.
56:25: I mean, obviously we live in San Diego, but there’s a community and there’s communities within the communities and you just like slowly start to just call in.
56:32: Yeah, really, yeah, because I, we met first years ago this random event during COVID, yeah, full circle.
56:44: Glad you’re still here, we’re all still here.
56:46: I ain’t going.
56:48: I’m not leaving.
56:49: So tell people if they want to follow the next iteration of Josh Josh Church.
56:54: Where would they find you?
56:54: Instagram I would say is probably the best spot to keep up with the the hops on my website, Joshuaeanchurch.com, or just my Instagram at Joshuaean Church.
57:03: I’m sure you’ll link to it all in the show notes, but say that’s the, that’s a spot fall along the journey, reach out, say hi, love these electric connections and.
57:11: So that’s it.
57:13: Can’t wait to see what you do next.
57:15: Thank you so much for tuning in.
57:16: We really appreciate you being here.
57:18: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
57:24: Also, we would love to hear from you.
57:26: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
57:33: We are here to support you and encourage you.
57:36: See you on the next one.
We dive into:
- The emotional and mental weight of leading a company through its hardest season
- Untangling your identity from your business—who are you when the thing you built is no longer there?
- Having difficult conversations with people you respect and love—and facing the truth
- How to build the capacity to show up every day when it gets REALLY hard
- Letting go of control and learning to trust the process (and God)
- Dealing with external pressures—hate mail, customer complaints, and expectations
- What it really looks like to be an entrepreneur beyond the highlight reel
- The privilege of pressure and how to navigate the “What’s next?” phase
Links & Resources:
Request to join The Find The Others WhatsApp Group (free). For The Others ready to play at a higher level in life. Daily resources, tools, and inspiration to fuel your journey. Join now: www.joshuadeanchurch.com/ftogroup
Connect with Josh:
Website: www.joshuadeanchurch.com/findtheothers
Instagram: www.instagram.com/joshuadeanchurch
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/@joshuadeanchurch
About Josh:
Joshua Dean Church is an entrepreneur, speaker, and facilitator dedicated to helping ambitious individuals align their energy to generate momentum, flow, and results that transform the way they work and live.
As co-founder of Edge Theory Labs, he pioneered the first portable, fully integrated cold immersion tub, generating $20M+ in revenue in under three years while defining a new market. Recognized on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list and as an EY Entrepreneur of the Year finalist, Joshua has been celebrated for his innovative approach and impact.
Drawing from his diverse background as a business leader, Wim Hof Method instructor, yoga teacher, and mindset coach, Joshua combines practical strategies with transformational experiences to inspire sustainable growth in individuals and teams. An Ironman triathlete, mountain climber, and host of the Find The Others podcast, Joshua’s passion for pushing limits and embracing challenges fuels his mission to empower others to unlock their full potential.
Joshua’s story is a testament to what it means to lead with authenticity, resilience, and faith—especially when people are counting on you. If you’ve ever had to make a tough decision, carry the weight of leadership, or trust that something better is unfolding, this episode is for you. It’s a conversation about what it truly looks like to create more capacity, build resilience, and go beyond your edge when others are relying on you and God has other plans for you.
Join The Fully Expressed Community, where you can be surrounded by other women who are also on the same path of personal growth, healing, and uncovering their authentic expression. Being in a community surrounded by others can truly be one of the most supporting and healing containers to support your personal invitation.
LET’S CONNECT!
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