Ready to tap into your inner wisdom and finally trust that little voice inside? In this episode, we sit down with Kelsey Erickson to unlock the secrets of intuition—what it is, how to strengthen it, and how it can change your life. Whether you’re feeling stuck, second-guessing yourself, or just curious about tuning in more deeply, this conversation is packed with soulful insights and practical tools to help you trust your journey.
0:02: Welcome to the Fully expressed podcast.
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0:30: Enjoy this new episode.
0:34: Welcome back to a new episode of the Fully expressed podcast, and today we’re going to dive so deep into depth psychology and intuition.
0:44: We have a very special guest.
0:46: Her name is Kelsey Erickson.
0:47: Hi, Kelsey.
0:48: Hello.
0:49: Thanks so much for being here today.
0:50: Thank you for having me.
0:52: Yeah, so Kelsey is an activating visionary leaders and business owners.
0:56: Strengthen and lead from their intuition.
0:58: She’s also in school for depth psychology and creativity, which when we started talking about that on our walk when we first met, I was like, what?
1:06: I should have gone to school for this.
1:07: I love this.
1:08: And like, if I went back to school, I wish I would have found that.
1:10: Just so you all know, so how I met Kelsey was, she actually reached out to me on the DMs, which I was like, thank you so much for reaching out.
1:19: And it was so sweet.
1:20: We met for a walk and we walked on our walk, and we’re just getting to know each other and You were just so kind right off the bat, and like so openhearted, and I was just so grateful for that time, and I’m ever since I met you, you also introduced me to a new community called Like Minded OC that Sam and I got to go to literally last month, and that community was so great, and I think that just really one highlights like your bravery and courage for connection, and two, also like, truly tells you like, the people that you meet in your life, you never know who they’re going to introduce you to, and like just being open to that and Especially as adults, I think I hear so often that like adults struggle to make friendships, yes, or like to make like make connections and also cause like we’ve evolved so much since we were in high school and college, we had those friends that are like, we’re in our same sphere.
2:08: And so, yeah, thank you so much for reaching out, and I’m so excited that you’re here today.
2:13: Yeah, yeah, of course.
2:15: I’ve also been known to be called the connection queen.
2:18: So make connections to people, to your intuition, to creativity, to your goals, dreams, desires, like, however I can bridge those connections, that’s how my mind is always working.
2:28: So that’s a very high compliment for me.
2:30: Yeah, I love that.
2:31: That’s a very beautiful gift and I feel blessed to be your friend now, because I’m like, yeah, there’s going to be more connection in general, and I’m so excited to share with the listeners what that connection means in different ways.
2:44: So tell us about depth psychology and creativity.
2:47: What is, I know you shared with us personally a little bit about it, and I was just like, tell me more, but we didn’t get a lot of time, but yeah, tell the listeners, like, what is depth psychology and creativity and what is that kind of entail?
2:59: Yes.
3:00: Well, I’ll tell you the backstory of how I even came into this master’s program, so it’s tied to everything else that I do.
3:06: , I had always wanted to go back to school since I was still even in my undergrad program, and originally that looked like something very traditional like an MBA or business program, something very like, you know, by the book in the box.
3:21: And I started going through that process.
3:24: Just like intuitively I knew that was not going to be for me.
3:26: And so I hard stopped it, like I had already studied for the GMAT, had already applied to schools, like I was like, no, like this is not gonna be for me.
3:33: And then I went to this kind of like low period where I just, I knew I would end up in a program at some point, but I didn’t know when or how or what that would look like.
3:42: And along that journey, I started really tapping into my intuition, following, you know, my true north where I was going.
3:49: And still in the back of my mind I’m like, you know, I want to go back to school, like what is this program gonna be?
3:54: And I literally had a ping to look up what is out there on intuition and creativity, cause that’s what I’m talking about all the time, it’s what I’m passionate about, and I stumbled upon this program, so it’s a master’s in depth psychology and creativity, and I share that backstory because depth psychology is so much of what I just described, of learning more about yourself so that you can more fully trust yourself so that you You can enter into spaces and places and situations that are meant for you rather than that are just sort of canned in the box opportunities.
4:24: Depth psychology is a branch of psychology that integrates your whole self.
4:30: So a lot of psychology is based really in the mind, and depth psychology says, hey, wait a second, there’s a lot more to you than just your mind.
4:37: There’s the body, there’s your unconscious, personal unconscious, and the collective unconscious.
4:42: So it serves as a bridge to being able to tap into things like your shadow, to your unconscious, to your creativity, which we need more of because psychology on its own is very much in the mind, but our society is very much in the mind as well.
4:56: The creativity element of it is very fascinating because it’s, it’s how do you, I mean, it’s what this podcast serves to do.
5:02: It’s how do you use your creativity to fully express who you are, what you came here to do, what you’re being called to do.
5:09: And to piece those two things together, it’s like, yeah, like that’s what I believe in.
5:14: So it’s been a really magical program to be a part of.
5:17: , yeah, what, what new questions are coming up on depth psychology.
5:22: That’s so cool.
5:24: I think for me, one of the things we spoke about when we talked about it, you, you know, I kind of brought up this idea that like, we always hear about the hero’s journey, and that’s plays such a pivotal role even in creativity, but we never really hear about the heroine’s journey.
5:40: Can we, can we talk a little bit about that?
5:42: Cause I know you mentioned that’s part of what you learn in depth psychology is.
5:46: Yes.
5:47: OK, first and foremost, I’m gonna connect everyone to a new book.
5:49: It’s called The Heroine’s Journey by Maureen Murdoch.
5:52: Required reading.
5:54: required.
5:54: OK.
5:55: OK, so we’re actually putting that in the show notes.
5:57: Yeah, make sure we put a link there.
5:59: Can you send me the link when you, yeah, yes, I will.
6:02: The hero’s journey for those of you that don’t know, goes something like this.
6:05: Man enter situation, gets called to a problem, dilemma, goes, deals with it, and then returns home.
6:12: In the heroine’s journey, it’s much more cyclical.
6:14: There are multiple stages happening at any given time, and it is truly more reflective of a woman’s path and how she walks and moves through life based.
6:23: On her unique skills, gifts, things like that.
6:26: The hero’s journey, you see it everywhere.
6:28: It’s in media, it’s in movies, you know, it’s pervasive.
6:32: But if you ever have felt like you don’t see your story, your journey in the media, in stories in the books that you read, it’s because a lot of things aren’t to your point.
6:39: We don’t talk about that.
6:41: And we just, we operate differently.
6:43: The heroine’s journey relating to depth psychology, the thing to be thinking about is like, on your unique path to individuation, to becoming that whole self.
6:51: How are you You going about doing that and trusting and knowing and seeing that your unique path is going to be, I mean, all three of us have walked different journeys, so we might have similarities, we might have things in common.
7:01: So it’s, it’s, it’s recognizing your own story, your own unfolding, and trusting that that’s OK and that’s good enough, and that’s more than enough.
7:10: Like rather than comparing and trying to think it has to look a certain way.
7:14: Yeah, the hero’s journey is very set.
7:16: It’s like very specific.
7:18: They overcome small obstacles and then there’s the big obstacle at the end.
7:21: And then they come back and they’ve won the prize or they’ve gotten to the other side.
7:25: But that makes so much more sense cause women are cyclical and do, I mean, we’ve talked a lot about this on the podcast now, but it just like we have such a different journey just to men, like we follow the moon, the men follow the sun, all these different things that it makes sense and our, yeah, our journey is never spoken about in that manner.
7:43: Like almost always even in film and TV it’s like we’re, even if the lead is a woman, usually it still has to do with romance or a man or Yeah, can you elaborate a little bit on the cycle?
7:54: Sorry.
7:55: Can you elaborate a little bit more on like the, the cycle that the heroin journey goes through, like what that means?
8:00: Yeah, yeah.
8:01: I believe the, the traditional hero’s journey has 7 steps.
8:05: The heroine’s journey has 9 steps, at least as Maureen Murdoch has outlined it.
8:09: Some of the things are are similar in which there is definitely like experiences to be had, lessons to be learned, things like that.
8:16: But if you think about it, the hero’s journey follows like a timeline, and the heroines journey.
8:20: is in a circle.
8:22: However, you’re at different points at different times, so you might be learning something and going through a challenge at the same time.
8:28: You might be in the dark forest and on stage at the same time.
8:32: So there you’re you’re holding much more all at the same time than you would like, nope, I’m just in this specific chapter right now, this part of the journey, and then I’m gonna move on to the next one.
8:42: Like layered versus linear.
8:44: Yes, yes, which can cause,, what I see a lot with my clients is that it Causes confusion or almost uncertainty or a feeling of being untethered, because you, you’re not able to pinpoint yourself in one exact place, which I think people struggle with, right?
9:01: Because our world and our society, to a point, we live in our mind.
9:04: We love structure, we love A plus B equal’ll C.
9:07: We were really having conversation on the podcast with our with our partners yesterday and how they always look at things as black and white.
9:13: And, you know, I think as women, we’re able to see so much more, and you’re talking about the layers.
9:18: So like, if someone is stuck in that, in their, in their journey of finding their fullest express self, and they’re in this layer and they’re like, I don’t know where the where I am on this journey.
9:27: Like, what would be some words that you would share with them or like something, some some some guidance.
9:31: OK, so the, the one logical, it’s not even logical, but structured piece of framework that I use is an equation, and it’s intuition plus action equals magic.
9:42: So I’ll I’ll break it down a little bit.
9:44: If you are stuck, if you are lost, if you’re in that conundrum, think about what Got you to that place.
9:49: It’s probably a lot of that logical thinking, the shoulds, following other people’s examples of how it’s been done before, things like that.
9:56: When you find yourself in that space, like, if that’s how you got there, I just want you to try on something different and think, OK, OK, how can I go forward doing this in a different way?
10:05: And why not trust myself in that journey.
10:08: So that equation that I listed out, it’s, you have an intuitive knowing, you have a a calling, a sense, a hunch, a gut feeling, however you connect into your intuition.
10:18: You immediately, and by immediately, I don’t mean in the sense of like that second, but in a level of reverence, you take some sort of action on that intuitive knowing, and that end result, that magic is the heroine’s journey.
10:30: It’s stepping into your true path.
10:32: There’s so much that can unfold there, but it’s not ever going to be limiting or keep you in just like a stage by stage process.
10:40: It’s going to allow you to continue unfolding.
10:42: Can I dive in there a little bit.
10:44: So something that comes up when you hear that.
10:45: I’ve even faced this like early on in my journey where I just wasn’t sure if it was intuition or fear.
10:50: Like, am I intuitively listening to the pangs or am I listening to fear that’s keeping me away from the pangs?
10:56: So what is that, what would your thoughts be on that?
10:59: Or how to know that?
11:00: Because I think that’s like the, the back and forth that we fall into.
11:02: Yes.
11:03: So, first and foremost, I’ll say when you are living intuitively, it’s not a life without fear.
11:08: It’s not a life without struggle.
11:10: It’s not a a banishment of these emotions that we have a hard time being.
11:13: with.
11:14: So to me, it might be intuition and fear at the same time.
11:18: However, I do encourage people to think about, I, I’m a tourist, I’m very tactical.
11:24: I liken intuition and fear and ego and anxiety to, to sensations.
11:31: So if my intuition feels velvety soft, my fear might feel like a really tight, itchy sweater.
11:38: And I think, I think about how these things.
11:41: Feel because then I can differentiate as they’re flowing through my mind, because even if I’m living intuitively, my mind is still active, it’s still working, it’s there’s egoic things happening all the time.
11:51: So if I can start to get the feel for what it is that I’m sensing, you can start to delineate between, is this intuition, is this fear?
11:58: The one thing I think about a lot with fear is there’s this narrative of like, if it’s hard, it’s worthwhile, if it, if it’s challenging you, it must be the right thing.
12:08: And I think there’s some truth to that, but I think there’s a difference between choosing hard and choosing your hard.
12:14: And sometimes choosing your heart is going to be fearful.
12:17: You know, the intuitive path is not just going to be sunshine, love, light, rainbows, 100%.
12:23: Yeah.
12:23: If you want, if you want an easy path, take the logical rope.
12:28: Yeah, that is the, the path of least resistance.
12:31: And I would also challenge any of the listeners, if you’re listening to this, you’re looking for something that’s not the logical.
12:36: Whole safe route.
12:37: And so, I love the way that you broke that down cause I also witnessed that in my own process, where like, things will come through, things are in knowing, and then, yes, I’ll hear all the what ifs, the buts, like, if this, if that, like, how am I going to make sense of this?
12:50: How am I going to answer this?
12:51: And I know that that’s just noise, but there’s still like this deep knowing of like, I have to move through the noise, and that’s what you’re kind of talking to, because I know in my body what it feels like, OK, that’s just noise, and this is my truth.
13:04: What if someone doesn’t have that deep connection to their knowing?
13:07: What would be that, right, like creating a deep knowing, because I think that’s taken me years to understand.
13:13: I also think some of it was already built in me like through my parents, like the way that they raised me, but I’m so curious.
13:18: There’s a lot of people that are like, I just don’t have that deep connection to self, they don’t even know what intuition truly feels like, like how you’re saying intuition and fear can feel so similar.
13:28: Like, how, what are your suggestions you give to people to decipher what that?
13:32: What that feels like or what that is.
13:33: So, a couple things.
13:35: One, I like to turn it inside out.
13:36: It’s likely you know how your intuition speaks to you, you’re just not willing to trust it.
13:41: I find more times than that women tell me all the time these intuitive stories, these things that come to them, these downloads this knowing, and the part where they get tripped up is that they’re not trusting what they’re hearing.
13:53: They’re not following that equation.
13:54: Remember that equation has two parts.
13:55: It’s the intuition and it’s the action, and that action requires self-trust.
13:59: However, there are some tactical things that I like to help or bring forward as a way to connect into your intuition.
14:05: First and foremost, I use the human design system, specifically your authority within your human design.
14:09: If you don’t know that, take a look at it.
14:11: Your authority is maybe one way your intuition speaks to you, possibly the loudest.
14:16: So that framework helps.
14:17: The other thing I like to use is it’s a super simple thing, but I call it the coffee cup method, and it’s when you open up your cupboard in the morning, you pick the one that like, you know, is for you that morning.
14:27: It’s very low stakes.
14:29: It’s a very simple exercise and intuitive development.
14:32: But if you in that moment can trust when you hear, pick that blue mug.
14:35: I want to use that blue mug.
14:36: If you pick that blue mug instead of picking the purple one that day, that’s a coin in that self-trust bank.
14:42: I do all the time with my cup.
14:44: Yes, I know which kind of coffee cup I want.
14:46: If there’s like they’re clean or dirty, I’m like, wait, where’s the cup that I really want this morning?
14:49: I want like a bigger one, I want this one cup.
14:51: Yeah, I want that cup.
14:52: And it’s, it’s so small, but these, these Instances, there’s no difference.
14:57: There’s no difference between what cup you’re going to confidently pick in the morning and what major life decision you’re going to make next Tuesday afternoon.
15:05: Yeah, so much.
15:06: You can do it in one, you can do it in the other.
15:08: However, a lot of times women’s intuition speaks to them about really big things.
15:13: And so that’s where a lot of times maybe that fear comes into or feeling like, wait, is this actually for me?
15:17: Because all of a sudden you’re getting information on something that could be life changing, and that can be overwhelming.
15:23: So that’s why I practice these small daily, you know, even hourly exercises, because I’m always wanting to be tapped in and connected, and building that self trust because it takes time, habit, ritual, or something I was gonna say too that I think happens, especially when you’re in relationship with men.
15:40: I’ve noticed a lot of friends of mine have, especially ones with very deep connection to their intuition, will then go to their partner with what they’re feeling, and the partner’s like, that’s crazy, or that doesn’t make sense, and almost dismiss it cause they’re coming from the logical mind and they don’t connect to that.
15:56: So what do you say, like, when, when, cause I think the mind, like the that logical path plays so much into what blocks us.
16:04: Like for me, I, I remember even as I was terrible at multiple choice, because I would always get the answer, and then I’d be like, well, but it could be this, or maybe it’s this, and I feel like we do that as women a lot.
16:15: We talk ourselves out of it.
16:16: So what are like the like a cup, maybe one or two specific exercises?
16:20: I know the mug is one that was so good.
16:22: What’s like one other one maybe that can we talk about somatics a lot on here and like coming back into the body.
16:27: What is like a, are there any creative exercises that you have people do that kind of tie into this?
16:32: Yeah, yeah.
16:33: A couple things.
16:34: One is I often encourage journaling with your opposite hand, because it just shifts your focus into like your your focus on how to write with your opposite hand.
16:45: And then there’s like this peripheral stuff that’s able to go on.
16:48: It’s kind of like the same feeling of like, you know, you might get really good ideas in the shower, like you’re you’re in the zone in the shower and yet stuff is happening, you’re getting these like ideas or fresh perspectives, things like that.
16:58: So that’s one thing.
16:59: The other thing I encourage is something I call receiving time, which is a little bit like meditation.
17:05: It’s always brief, like I always recommend 3 minutes, maybe 4 minutes max, but you’re Simply sitting like you would be in a meditation, but you’re just, you’re waiting to receive.
17:14: You’re not clearing anything that comes up.
17:16: You’re just showing to yourself that if I sit still, if I tune in, something will drop in.
17:21: You don’t need to do anything with it.
17:23: You can follow the equation if you want, but it’s just to prove to yourself that like, this works.
17:28: I am in tune, I am connected to something greater because you’re right, we are in a world that doesn’t really value that.
17:33: And that’s a lot of what spurred me on my mission, why I started, I call it intuitive leadership because I was always in spaces like corporate America, for example, where I would say, you know, I have a gut feeling X Y Z.
17:44: And you can imagine the looks on the executive faces when I when I use that language because that doesn’t fit in there.
17:50: So they’re like, that’s great, right, but we’re gonna do this gut, yeah, we got like we have results and data points.
17:58: Yes, show me the spreadsheet.
18:00: Yeah, whatever.
18:02: I always right, but what’s the proof, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:06: you brought up something really interesting though about the being in relationship with somebody who is not as intuitive, so I’m very fortunate.
18:13: My husband is very intuitive, like we are connected in that way, however, I do have a lot of clients who are in relationships or friendships or familial relationships where that’s kind of how they’re being perceived.
18:24: It’s like, what are you talking about?
18:26: Like, that’s not a real thing.
18:27: I think in those instances you, you step into that leader role.
18:31: You’re seeing something different, you’re showing a different way of being, and that to me is what intuitive leadership is.
18:35: So for those people who find themselves in those situations, you may need to get creative in how you win people over, how you influence with your intuition, but I don’t think those are lost situations, and I think it’s actually a reflection of something that you’re being called to do, called to demonstrate, and it’s been my experience that everyone eventually comes, I love the stories where Yeah, we have one friend in particular and the, the husband will come back and like, oh my gosh, you were right, it could be months later, and she’s like, mhm, I know, but it’s true, you know, it’s like, But I also really admire her for standing in that, cause she’s really good at standing in it and being like, well, this is, I’m just telling you this is how it is, like, this is, but I love that, it’s so true, yeah.
19:17: It is a chance to step into your power as a woman.
19:20: Yeah.
19:20: The one thing I was gonna say As you are talking about that, I also like what comes up for me is like, circumstances, you know, how you can’t control your circumstances, but still listen to your intuition.
19:29: So I think that’s also a whole nuance, like, we’re not just talking about like being in a relationship, but like, you know, maybe you get a pay that you have to quit your job and like, this is no longer for you, but how am I gonna make money, you know, all these things.
19:40: So like your circumstances also impact how you live with your decisions.
19:45: So I’m so curious, what are your thoughts there?
19:47: Yeah, well, like I said before, the intuitive life, that intuitive path is going to take you to places and spaces you may never have been before.
19:55: And my intuition walked me right back into corporate America once.
19:59: So anything is possible on the other end of following your intuition.
20:03: I think the important thing is to be open minded about what comes through, to be slightly less.
20:09: Logical on how you interpret it.
20:11: And I think the hard thing above all else is focusing more on the what, like what are you being called to do and less on the how, the circumstance in and of itself, the more you try to problem solve or fit the situation perfectly or plug your intuition directly into how you maybe have seen something happen before, like that in and of itself is limiting.
20:31: You’re putting limitations on aren’t needed.
20:34: Yeah, yeah.
20:35: We’re both so excited about this conversation.
20:38: I was gonna say no, I think that just, I mean, that invites people into trusting themselves, is what you’re saying, because you’re saying like, make a decision and whatever is on the other side of it, I’m going to be OK with it, and it’s going to be the next, there’ll be another ping on the other side of that, and it can take you in circles maybe, or it can take you right back to where you were, but to your point, you’re saying it’s OK.
20:56: Yeah.
20:57: Yeah.
20:57: Yeah, a question that I often get is, and I would love to hear how you two have related to this in your journeys, like, I, I listened to my intuition and it felt like a mistake or I, I didn’t end up getting what I wanted.
21:09: Does that mean like my intuition was wrong?
21:12: And first of all, I think there’s like a little bit of like scarcity thinking within that question in and of itself.
21:17: However, the thing I’m always looking for is like the thing under the thing.
21:22: So if you’re following the equation, intuition plus action equals magic.
21:25: If you had a predisposed idea of what that magic should look like, and then that magic doesn’t happen in that way, that’s closed-minded thinking.
21:33: You were, you were already setting up a limitation for what you thought was going to happen.
21:36: So you’re setting expectations for something that you weren’t allowing what really needed to happen or what that true magic was, you know, there’s a form of protection that happens in that too.
21:45: I would be curious, I mean, have either of you ever listened to your intuition and it led you astray or like into a challenge or I would say for me, definitely, I wouldn’t say astray, I’d say it into a challenge for sure.
21:59: I think I grew up with very logical Capricornian parents, and I am a full-on artist, and I never embraced that fully as a child because to I was told like, that’s a hobby, and I kept trying to force myself back into the corporate world or like all these other boxes and nothing felt good.
22:17: So I would say my intuition kept pulling me back to creativity, pulling me back to creativity, and it felt very challenging because my mind was like, no, like this is not, even though I was watching people make a living as artists.
22:31: Because I never saw that or was encouraged of that.
22:33: I felt like that was definitely like stepping into a very big challenge, and also to even embrace like, that I am creative in many ways, like not just one way and being OK with that.
22:42: So, for me, I wouldn’t say it led me astray, but it definitely felt very challenging to step on the other side, but once I did it, it’s been absolute magic, only magic.
22:52: It’s only getting better and better.
22:53: Yeah.
22:54: Yeah, I think once I gave my self permission to listen to it, it has never ever sent me astray.
23:01: But I also have created this deep trust in myself that if it’s not what I was looking for or not what I expected for, I have a very open mind to like, OK, this is not a problem, this is like an opportunity, something that I didn’t see before.
23:13: Like, it’s leading me to something else.
23:14: I’m like, I think about this even in business or Or whatever, right?
23:18: Like you, you set out to build something and I’m only seeing one thing in front of me, by me selling a product or a service, I’m going to see other people’s perspectives and I get the opportunity to like, shift it, do whatever that is.
23:30: So I need to be in the action to also create more intuition using your, your equation, right?
23:36: So like in the action comes more intuition versus like, Just listening to the pings and being like, I’m going to sit here in my pings and I keep getting pinged and yeah.
23:45: I will also say like, I have maybe like at the beginning, cause I did something to a school, like I ended up going down the corporate route.
23:52: I basically went to business school when I really wanted to do psychology and I did that because that’s what my dad said was safe, you know, I was like, I’m gonna do sales, I’m going to be successful, life is going to be good.
24:01: If you would ask me there as a a college student, I loved my psychology classes, anything human behavior, and I wish I would have listened to that because I’m still following intuition still leading me back to that, which is crazy.
24:11: I became a life coach.
24:12: I learned everything about anything when it comes to subconscious, somatics, whatever you can think of, because I’m so obsessed with human behavior.
24:19: And so what I would say is like, it’s funny that even if I don’t listen to it, it just gets louder.
24:25: And I think sometimes we wait for things to get louder until we’re waiting to listen.
24:29: It’s like, I’m screaming at you.
24:32: I’ve been knocking at your door for so long.
24:34: Like, can you please let me in because I’m suffocating.
24:37: And then at that point, I think it’s even more overwhelming and it just creates a whole internal process that I could have probably avoided if I would have listened to it in the first place.
24:46: And the more comfortable I’ve created with my self trust, it’s like, oh, intuition, ping, action, more intuition, more action, you know, like, it’s In the action where I find more intuition.
24:55: Yes, I’m curious too, so like a very quick example, I wanted to go to film school, like when I was in high school.
25:03: I applied to all these film schools.
25:05: My parents are like, you have to get a 4 year degree so that I was only allowed to apply to 4 year universities.
25:09: It didn’t happen.
25:11: I took another route and I ended up in film school in the end anyways, but I really wanted to be in LA or New York, and I was like so bummed that that never happened.
25:18: I ended up in LA maybe 5 years later, but that’s when I met my husband, and the way we met was so kismet that if I had been there, I would have been so in such a different place in my career, like I would have never met him.
25:29: And I feel like, can you give an example to us, cause I’m sure you have many of like how that intuition brought you to, I know you’ve given like the example that you followed it back into corporate and stuff like that, but maybe you can give a specific example of like how your intuition led you into a circumstance like that.
25:46: Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s a funny question to receive now because life feels like that all the time.
25:53: There, there’s less like major moments of like, oh, that wasn’t, you know, think.
25:58: Goodness for that redirect or that timing.
26:01: , I think the latest is probably just, I’m originally from Minnesota and we recently, well, within the last two years, moved out to California, and there was a series of events where it was just like, OK, I, I call them expiration dates, like you have some situations that just are expired, and the longer you sit in them, the worse it is.
26:17: It’s like you can picture a bag of moldy expired red, like, it’s like less and less appealing and less and less stale and hard every time you buy, yeah, just get a and gross.
26:26: So I leave an expired experience, and within 2 months’ time, we have gotten our home ready to rent.
26:33: We have moved across the country, and we’re starting a completely new chapter.
26:37: And the thing I want to highlight there is that in that intuitive action that took a level of courage to take that decision to leave that expired experience.
26:46: So that was challenging, and I, I didn’t have certainty of what was going to be on the other side, but I knew in that moment, like, wow, this is the exact right time that this needs to happen.
26:55: There are ways in which I can look at that situation in hindsight, kind of like in your story of saying like, oh wow, and it had to happen in that time because of this other thing, and so you can, you can do a lot of reflection on your intuitive knowing.
27:07: The thing I, I always caution is like, try not to logify your intuitive knowings.
27:15: Try not to to to take the magic out of them.
27:18: Like, oh, I had this ping and then this happened.
27:20: I saw 11.
27:20: 11 and then this happened like, don’t try to solve it.
27:25: I know, like in a way you’re also looking for you’re putting logic to it, you’re like, I did this result.
27:34: OK, just proving yourself versus disconnecting you from your intuition.
27:38: Yes, yes, yeah.
27:40: It takes the magic out of it is one thing, and it doesn’t leave room for self.
27:46: Because you’re what you’re really doing there is you think you’re building trust because you’re like, oh my gosh, yeah, I saw the butterfly, and then this thing came in, like, yes, like it’s good to be aware and in tune of how that’s happening, but also you’re, there’s a level of distrust there.
27:59: Did you not trust the butterfly when you saw it?
28:01: You only trusted it because you got the thing you wanted?
28:04: What if you didn’t get the thing you wanted?
28:05: Did you, do you have less trust in the butterfly?
28:07: The butterfly is always the trusted part of that situation.
28:11: That’s the one less of the.
28:14: Yeah, it’s so true.
28:15: We do try to log logic.
28:17: Yeah, I just made that up.
28:17: Yeah, I like it.
28:19: I, let’s get, let’s stick with it.
28:20: I feel like we do try to justify so much of even what I just said, like, oh if this didn’t happen and this didn’t, which I do believe that is the magic, but we can exactly like get to that place where it’s like, I saw an owl, it must mean this or like, you know, and we want, instead of just saying, oh, that’s sometimes when I see like animals or things.
28:38: And I feel it’s, it’s like a it’s like an affirmation.
28:41: I don’t question anymore.
28:42: I’m just like, thank you.
28:43: OK.
28:44: You know, like, yes, got it, you know, instead of being like, well, what’s that tied to, and does that mean this like, so, yeah, they’re to me how I use signs symbolism, things like that.
28:53: Yes, they can always have a more more sacred and deeper meaning for sure.
28:58: However, in those instances, it’s a it’s your bridge to the present moment.
29:01: It’s just a call to Hey, what’s here right now?
29:04: Where’s your mind at?
29:05: Is it in the past?
29:06: Is it in the future?
29:07: Every single time I see a hummingbird, I am always future explaining, like, I’m, I’m so far ahead of myself and a hummingbird will fly right in front of me and I’m like, yeah, like, just get back right here.
29:16: I’m gonna a walk.
29:17: It’s beautiful.
29:17: Like, let’s just stay here versus somewhere else.
29:20: I love that.
29:21: It sounds as as you’re talking about it too, like there’s a sense of trust, but there’s also a sense of unattachment.
29:26: And more in the trust that you’re just listening to yourself, because I think what you’re talking to and what you were talking to was more of the attachment to how something looks or how something is represented or how something comes out, and you’re really talking about the art of trusting yourself and being unattached to the outcome as more as just being with it.
29:43: Something I notice I do too is using those totems as an example is I’ll have to look at that totem immediately, like, what does that mean?
29:49: You know, when really the times where I’ve been again in the presence and I see two Ls or I see Something.
29:56: I go with, when I go with just my first instinct of what it means, that’s what it means.
30:00: It’s almost like dreams, like you, you have dreams and you can interpret them, you can Google them and interpret them, or you could just ask yourself, well, what is that, what am I feeling when I rethink what that was?
30:10: I feel like that’s more powerful.
30:12: Would you agree, like in trusting your intuition versus trying to really find the answer, or have someone else tell you what it is.
30:18: Yes, yes.
30:19: There’s a couple different approaches that I like to take at this, like, I’m a, I’m a big believer in that immediate knowing.
30:25: Like whatever that thing pulled you first, like, yes, trust that, absolutely.
30:30: I think there are places or points in time where it’s beneficial to go deeper.
30:34: It’s not to go deeper outsourcing your intuition, it’s to go deeper within your intuition.
30:38: So, let’s say you, I, once I had a dream about an owl, and as I was watching the owl, a wolf came through and I’m, I’m, you know, there’s a lot of immediate associations that I can have with that dream.
30:49: So what I do is I’m like, OK, what is that immediate association?
30:52: And then I’m going deeper.
30:53: I’m like, well, what else?
30:54: Does that remind me of?
30:55: What else is coming up right now in this moment as I’m thinking about that dream, and I start to kind of go down this rabbit hole of depth, when you talk about depth psychology of connecting, like, this is a message from my subconscious, my unconscious, like, what, what am I pulling up from this pool of, you know, my world, my psyche that’s unseen, that’s underneath my life.
31:15: And so there, there’s a place to go deeper on that, but yes, absolutely.
31:19: I think that that initial immediate thing that you feel and sense, like, go with that.
31:23: And I wanna touch on one thing that I said is outsourcing your intuition.
31:27: Like a lot of times when you just when you get kind of hyperactive with the sign and they made it like Google search or like, I’ll get texts sometimes from people being like, I just saw a deer on my walk, like, what does this mean?
31:37: And I’m like, well, what do you think it means?
31:39: And I’m not, I’m not trying to be like a pain in the, you know what, but I’m just truly like, no that that question is for you, not for me.
31:45: Yeah, exactly you that guidance I can give you that what comes up for me, but that’s.
31:49: Then that becomes, that’s something for me.
31:51: As you said that, I think about like, what do they call people that do readings for you and they tell you the future, psychics and stuff like that.
31:58: I always like internally had resistance to going to them because I’m always like, I really want to go, but then I’m also like, you’re giving your power to someone else to tell you what you already know.
32:08: Yeah.
32:09: Or even allowing them to like implant ideas.
32:11: Yeah, Ilant ideas or create seeds and stuff like that, which I’m, I’m interested and I believe so much more.
32:17: I’m like, I already know what that looks like.
32:19: It’s just a matter of me connecting to like what that is and also like, my life can, you know, I mean, I want to know how to say this.
32:26: I’m excited for the ride of taking action.
32:28: Like, surprise me.
32:30: I think people find a lot of safety and like, well, what, what came up for you?
32:33: Yeah.
32:34: What are you seeing in me?
32:35: You know, I feel like life wouldn’t be as fun.
32:37: If you knew all the things that were coming for you either though, it’s like, we like this I don’t know, the surprises are fun.
32:42: But a lot of people want to know, you know, like that’s, I mean, that’s what we’re we’re challenging right now.
32:47: We’re challenging in this conversation, like someone that wants to know how things are going to be, how they’re going to look like, they love, they find so much safety and like, my entire day in my routine looks like this, right?
32:58: And you’re so much about saying like, let’s actually throw all that out, throw it out the window, whatever your routine is, like, I did something similar for my birthday, like I literally just followed the pings to your point, and I was like, what do I need right now?
33:10: What do I need this?
33:10: What I do that?
33:11: And I love that practice because in that itself you’re like start to also gain information that just speaks to your intuition.
33:19: And like you get really familiar with the language of your intuition.
33:22: I use a different language.
33:23: I say, you know, we all have access to our bodies’ language, we just don’t know how to speak it or listen to it, but like every single person does, it’s just a matter of you connecting to and listening to what it sounds like.
33:32: Yeah.
33:32: Yeah.
33:33: And that and that your birthday experiment, that is going to bring up a lot of resistance for people because they’re gonna say, oh, I’m too busy to do that, oh I have this going on.
33:40: I have there’s going to be a level of resistance and And listeners right now might feel like I’m a bit of a mind reader just by simply saying that, but like, notice your points of resistance in your day to day life.
33:51: Because wherever that resistance is, there’s probably something for you to pay attention to.
33:54: Whenever you’re telling yourself you can’t do something, especially when you’re learning about something that might develop you, something that might grow you, like, I encourage people to lean into that.
34:03: Either lean into it to confirm, yes, that’s not, that’s not me, that’s not for me, or to lean into.
34:08: To say, hey, yeah, what if I what if I tried this on?
34:11: Yeah.
34:12: And you need to, I always say you have to, you don’t know anything unless you experience it.
34:16: It’s really unless you try and everyone don’t even give themselves the opportunity to experience it.
34:21: And so there’s so much juice in the experience and you can always say, that wasn’t for me.
34:26: Now I know what that feels like and I can actually listen to that.
34:29: Or that was for me.
34:30: Wow, that was a different flavor, a different Feeling that I’ve never felt before.
34:34: I want more of that.
34:35: And then you can get to what a lot of people here is like full body knows, full body yeses, and what that actually sounds like for you.
34:41: I think then you can realize too that it’s hot.
34:43: There is, there’s no wrong way, no wrong path, no wrong desk like, I don’t look back and think I wish I had gone to film school instead, or I wish I had done something else cause I feel like it’s all leading you to where you’re right now, like where you are right now.
34:56: Yeah.
34:56: Yeah, and we’re, we can only ever be where we are right now.
35:00: Yeah, exactly.
35:01: Yeah.
35:01: Well, I would love to make this a little bit more about you.
35:05: So one of the, thank you for all of that, when I want to say to like acknowledge, like, that conversation was so helpful, the way that you broke it down and like, literally, intuition plus action equals magic is just OK.
35:16: nominal thing, and I hope that you just hold on to that and continue to carry it on because it’s like so cool to hear that.
35:21: , and I want to know about you.
35:24: So like, let’s connect to your intuition,, in the moment, as I have like a lot of thought.
35:28: But where are you feeling called to more fully express yourself?
35:32: Where in your life are you feeling called to be more of you?
35:35: I am being called right now to work more with my anger and that emotion because I will stay neutral, and I prefer peace over everything else.
35:48: And I’m learning how to piece anger and integrate that into my life.
35:53: I’ve had things over the years where I can, I can.
35:56: Feel that seed of anger, and I think it starts like that, and I think it festers.
36:00: And I’ve been fortunate to not have a lot of anger in my life, but I’m, I’m studying my anger, how it presents itself, how I how I now express it versus how I would like to express it, because it’s either it stays within, or it comes out.
36:13: I’m snapping at my husband.
36:15: I’m, you know, sending a text.
36:18: It’s so polar right now, and I’m learning how to make it more of an a spectrum so that I can be angry and creative.
36:28: I can be angry and expressive.
36:29: I can work with it rather than have it be this very like other thing or outside of me thing.
36:36: And yeah.
36:38: And I’m curious because I just did an email on this, and I, I got some crickets, usually get some responses.
36:44: What’s your relationship like anger to anger?
36:47: Oh, I have built my relationship with anger, and I love anger now.
36:51: How do I say that?
36:52: Like, I did not always feel actually, because most of my life I was soft, I was sweet, I You know, I didn’t know what it felt like to be angry and express anger, and it wasn’t until I did my somatic certification where I got to access anger, and I was like, wow, I feel so much better.
37:08: And so like in my day to day life, even with Nick, if I feel frustrated, him and I have exercises like babe, I feel anger and I have like really healthy ways to express it, but they’re not at him.
37:20: They’re all through like body expression.
37:22: And so that has really helped me tap into it and be like, OK, and then it like literally moves through you, and then I find more peace afterwards, because what I’ve noticed is like, once I created more space for anger, I actually don’t get stuck in it.
37:39: Like it, you know, as someone who suppressed her emotions for so long and didn’t want to feel anger, it would come up as, like, passive aggressiveness.
37:47: Or like me shutting down and not wanting to talk to you, or just like, no, leave me alone.
37:51: I don’t want to talk to you.
37:52: I have nothing to say and like internally I’m having all this experience of like, I shouldn’t feel this way.
37:57: Why am I feeling this way?
37:58: I’m trying to make sense of it.
37:59: And what I’ve learned with anger specifically and just like any emotion, is like, if we can learn how to express it in the moment, we’ll actually find more clarity as to why we feel angry and listen to that pain, if that makes sense.
38:11: Yeah.
38:12: Yeah.
38:12: Yeah, the, it’s really interesting to talk about anger as it relates to self-expression, because typically how I had worked with anger before, and I want, I wanna hear your response too, Sam, is I would go for a run or do a really hard workout like I could, I could move the anger through my Body, and yet if I still felt it after a workout, I didn’t really have a way to do something with it, and it’s that like next piece or it feels like that’s my next step, is that like, expression, like, OK, how do I use words to describe this emotion rather than just my body.
38:43: I can help you.
38:44: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I will, I wanna acknowledge that the fact that like, you know, a lot of people, a lot of therapists will say like go for a run.
38:52: Even like a really great way to express anger is at the gym by lifting weights, but the key thing is like actually channeling it while you’re doing it.
39:00: I think people are just more experiencing the actual feeling of like, this feels better, but not really connected to the actual anger where it’s coming from and letting themselves actually go there.
39:10: So they tend to use like the run or the the gym of lifting weights as an outlet, and they feel like an initial relief, but to your point, but you still feel it because you’re not really connected to, well, why am I feeling angry?
39:24: And that could be like, which part of me is angry, which part of my inner child is feeling angry, you know, what’s coming up for me, all that stuff is kind of like underneath the hub.
39:32: It’s like, you’re scratching the surface by.
39:36: By, by screaming even, you know, some people that do express anger, like, they’ll yell at you, like people that are quote unquote explosive, but they’re not really connected to why, right?
39:47: They feel the initial relief and they’re like, OK, I feel better that I yelled at you, but they’re still angry, you know.
39:53: So yeah, go ahead.
39:54: I mean, mine was in between both of you.
39:56: So with my friends, like I never, I think it showed up as passive aggressive.
40:01: really more internal conflict, because I’m definitely an avoider of conflict and anger.
40:07: I didn’t like feeling it, I didn’t like expressing it, and I always kind of was raised with like, you don’t put your stuff on anybody else.
40:13: You just like deal with it.
40:14: I was definitely a self soother, so I think I would stew a lot in my mind.
40:18: With my family, I was more verbal.
40:20: So I would, I get really angry and I’d say something really mean, and I remember specifically in high school, or maybe I was like 18.
40:27: I got in a pretty bad fight with my brother, and I remember just saying something so hateful, and in that moment I was like, I never want to express this way again.
40:36: And that’s when I really started to like step out of myself and do more of the like reflective of just like, what caused that and why.
40:45: And for me, I started mental, and then I went to more like physical release.
40:49: But I think being really practicing, and it took a long time, but like really practicing being the abs.
40:54: Server, and then it would get easier and in moments when I’d feel myself want to say something really mean, I’d be like,, it’s not going to be productive, you know.
41:01: And that’s really what helped me.
41:03: And then going more as I learned more about movement or like breath work and those sort of things, I could channel it in a healthier way.
41:09: And then I really worked on the triggers, because now I don’t feel anger as much or I’m able to pass through it way faster because I don’t feel the trigger is there anymore.
41:19: And I feel like the triggers Really come from our family.
41:22: And then they show up in our partnerships and our friendships.
41:24: So like that was really helpful, like being the observer, and then really reflecting on that.
41:29: And I also want to say there, like that was really beautiful.
41:31: I want to say like anger is not bad.
41:33: I think sometimes we try to find ways to say, well, how can I get rid of this?
41:37: Can I heal the trigger?
41:38: Can I heal the wound?
41:39: And there’s a lot of, I, to anyone that thinks that anger is bad, especially someone as me, like my, my sister is like so aggressive, and I would see He get angry.
41:47: I was like, well, that’s bad.
41:48: I never want to act that way.
41:50: But anger is just a literally expression.
41:55: It’s a primal, it’s in part of us, and then we actually need access to it.
41:58: And so creating a deeper relationship with anger has been, oh my gosh, so healing and welcoming to be like, I’m not going to try and get rid of you.
42:06: I’m just gonna be with you, because we can get angry in so many different ways in our life.
42:11: I mean, I woke up grumpy today.
42:14: Yeah, me too.
42:15: I’m like a day before, I’m my period and it’s like, like I like say I’m grumpy.
42:20: And then, yeah, I was gonna say to you like maybe you didn’t get crickets, like you didn’t get responses because I think not a lot of people, they don’t know how to how to welcome anger.
42:29: They see anger as bad, and it’s really just an emotion and usually under anger, there’s some kind of sadness, shame or guilt.
42:36: And so we’re at a level where there’s more underneath.
42:40: that people can get more curious about,, but that’s what we’re talking about here, yeah.
42:45: For me, it wasn’t like the anger that was upsetting to me.
42:47: It was like the words that were coming from the anger and realizing that it was just a misappropriation of I was feeling, yeah, and you can go there like I I’ve said some mean things to my sister before when I’m like I’ve younger me when I would suppress things and like I would know, you know, you know, you just and you know.
43:06: Anger is not only anger outward, anger is also anger towards an inward, and this is where you see a lot of people not to be triggering, but you know, suicidal thoughts, taking like, you know, harming themselves, eating disorders.
43:19: There’s more of like an internal like, I’m angry at myself, so anger doesn’t always have to look externally, it can be anger at yourself.
43:25: And so also getting curious with that piece.
43:28: I that’s your, I’m so excited for you.
43:29: I I think.
43:33: Such a beautiful gift, and I’m so glad that you got the ping to like want to dive deeper into that.
43:38: Yeah.
43:38: Yeah, I couldn’t evade it.
43:39: It came in a dream, so I love it.
43:41: Of course it did.
43:43: Yeah, there’s your pin.
43:44: Yeah.
43:45: I love that.
43:45: Yeah.
43:46: Anything else you want to share with the audience, listeners before we wrap up?
43:50: Do you feel called to?
43:51: No.
43:51: Do you feel complete?
43:52: Yes, they do.
43:54: Yeah, that was such a great conversation and thank you so much.
43:56: Again, this wouldn’t have happened if you didn’t reach out, and I think get to know you and I’m just so we’re both so excited to get to know you so much.
44:05: Yeah, for sure, anything that you need.
44:07: Well, how can someone, I always forget this part and I’m like you get this every time.
44:13: , how can someone connect with you?
44:15: How can they find you?
44:16: How can they get to know you even further behind the beyond the podcast?
44:19: Yeah, so first place would be my website.
44:21: It’s when you can put it in the show notes, but it’s Eme andco.com.
44:25: I have something, there’s a Resource tab.
44:26: It’s called my apothecary, but it’s like all these resources that I’ve made over the years that I love for people to tap into and use and help you more fully express yourself, tap into your intuition, whatever journey you’re on.
44:38: And then the social media I’m on the most is Instagram, so it’s Eme.
44:41: Ann.
44:42: OK, we’ll put it all in the show notes too, so people can connect right to you.
44:45: I love that it’s called Apothecary.
44:47: That’s amazing.
44:48: Well, that’s what I, that’s what I noticed I was doing because people would be like, I just had to gal texting me.
44:52: She’s like, I’m going to a solo trip this weekend in the woods, like I want to do some journaling, like, what do you recommend?
44:56: And I’m just like in my mind pulling these little guides and gifts that I’ve built over the years.
45:00: I’m like, Here is your custom bundle of development.
45:03: That’s amazing.
45:04: Have fun.
45:05: And this is how I work.
45:08: I’m like that’s nothing but an apothecary.
45:09: Yeah, I mean everything from the name of your company to your equation, like I just feel like you bring yourself to that and really beautiful.
45:16: Thank you.
45:16: Thank you so much.
45:17: Thank you for coming.
45:18: Thank you.
45:19: Thank you so much for tuning in.
45:21: We really appreciate you being here.
45:23: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
45:28: Also, we would love to hear from you.
45:31: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
45:38: We are here to support you and encourage you.
45:40: See you on the next one.
0:03: We are your hosts, Samantha and Karenna.
0:06: This is a show where we invite you into your fullest expressed self and life, relationships, and business.
0:11: We believe that if you crave more, you are meant for more.
0:14: There is room for all of us to be fully expressed.
0:17: Along with the show, we’ve created a virtual community to connect you with fellow listeners.
0:22: Make sure to check out the fully expressed community membership.
0:25: You’ll find the link to join in the show notes and on our website.
0:28: So excited to see you there.
0:30: Enjoy this new episode.
0:34: Welcome back to a new episode of the Fully expressed podcast, and today we’re going to dive so deep into depth psychology and intuition.
0:44: We have a very special guest.
0:46: Her name is Kelsey Erickson.
0:47: Hi, Kelsey.
0:48: Hello.
0:49: Thanks so much for being here today.
0:50: Thank you for having me.
0:52: Yeah, so Kelsey is an activating visionary leaders and business owners.
0:56: Strengthen and lead from their intuition.
0:58: She’s also in school for depth psychology and creativity, which when we started talking about that on our walk when we first met, I was like, what?
1:06: I should have gone to school for this.
1:07: I love this.
1:08: And like, if I went back to school, I wish I would have found that.
1:10: Just so you all know, so how I met Kelsey was, she actually reached out to me on the DMs, which I was like, thank you so much for reaching out.
1:19: And it was so sweet.
1:20: We met for a walk and we walked on our walk, and we’re just getting to know each other and You were just so kind right off the bat, and like so openhearted, and I was just so grateful for that time, and I’m ever since I met you, you also introduced me to a new community called Like Minded OC that Sam and I got to go to literally last month, and that community was so great, and I think that just really one highlights like your bravery and courage for connection, and two, also like, truly tells you like, the people that you meet in your life, you never know who they’re going to introduce you to, and like just being open to that and Especially as adults, I think I hear so often that like adults struggle to make friendships, yes, or like to make like make connections and also cause like we’ve evolved so much since we were in high school and college, we had those friends that are like, we’re in our same sphere.
2:08: And so, yeah, thank you so much for reaching out, and I’m so excited that you’re here today.
2:13: Yeah, yeah, of course.
2:15: I’ve also been known to be called the connection queen.
2:18: So make connections to people, to your intuition, to creativity, to your goals, dreams, desires, like, however I can bridge those connections, that’s how my mind is always working.
2:28: So that’s a very high compliment for me.
2:30: Yeah, I love that.
2:31: That’s a very beautiful gift and I feel blessed to be your friend now, because I’m like, yeah, there’s going to be more connection in general, and I’m so excited to share with the listeners what that connection means in different ways.
2:44: So tell us about depth psychology and creativity.
2:47: What is, I know you shared with us personally a little bit about it, and I was just like, tell me more, but we didn’t get a lot of time, but yeah, tell the listeners, like, what is depth psychology and creativity and what is that kind of entail?
2:59: Yes.
3:00: Well, I’ll tell you the backstory of how I even came into this master’s program, so it’s tied to everything else that I do.
3:06: , I had always wanted to go back to school since I was still even in my undergrad program, and originally that looked like something very traditional like an MBA or business program, something very like, you know, by the book in the box.
3:21: And I started going through that process.
3:24: Just like intuitively I knew that was not going to be for me.
3:26: And so I hard stopped it, like I had already studied for the GMAT, had already applied to schools, like I was like, no, like this is not gonna be for me.
3:33: And then I went to this kind of like low period where I just, I knew I would end up in a program at some point, but I didn’t know when or how or what that would look like.
3:42: And along that journey, I started really tapping into my intuition, following, you know, my true north where I was going.
3:49: And still in the back of my mind I’m like, you know, I want to go back to school, like what is this program gonna be?
3:54: And I literally had a ping to look up what is out there on intuition and creativity, cause that’s what I’m talking about all the time, it’s what I’m passionate about, and I stumbled upon this program, so it’s a master’s in depth psychology and creativity, and I share that backstory because depth psychology is so much of what I just described, of learning more about yourself so that you can more fully trust yourself so that you You can enter into spaces and places and situations that are meant for you rather than that are just sort of canned in the box opportunities.
4:24: Depth psychology is a branch of psychology that integrates your whole self.
4:30: So a lot of psychology is based really in the mind, and depth psychology says, hey, wait a second, there’s a lot more to you than just your mind.
4:37: There’s the body, there’s your unconscious, personal unconscious, and the collective unconscious.
4:42: So it serves as a bridge to being able to tap into things like your shadow, to your unconscious, to your creativity, which we need more of because psychology on its own is very much in the mind, but our society is very much in the mind as well.
4:56: The creativity element of it is very fascinating because it’s, it’s how do you, I mean, it’s what this podcast serves to do.
5:02: It’s how do you use your creativity to fully express who you are, what you came here to do, what you’re being called to do.
5:09: And to piece those two things together, it’s like, yeah, like that’s what I believe in.
5:14: So it’s been a really magical program to be a part of.
5:17: , yeah, what, what new questions are coming up on depth psychology.
5:22: That’s so cool.
5:24: I think for me, one of the things we spoke about when we talked about it, you, you know, I kind of brought up this idea that like, we always hear about the hero’s journey, and that’s plays such a pivotal role even in creativity, but we never really hear about the heroine’s journey.
5:40: Can we, can we talk a little bit about that?
5:42: Cause I know you mentioned that’s part of what you learn in depth psychology is.
5:46: Yes.
5:47: OK, first and foremost, I’m gonna connect everyone to a new book.
5:49: It’s called The Heroine’s Journey by Maureen Murdoch.
5:52: Required reading.
5:54: required.
5:54: OK.
5:55: OK, so we’re actually putting that in the show notes.
5:57: Yeah, make sure we put a link there.
5:59: Can you send me the link when you, yeah, yes, I will.
6:02: The hero’s journey for those of you that don’t know, goes something like this.
6:05: Man enter situation, gets called to a problem, dilemma, goes, deals with it, and then returns home.
6:12: In the heroine’s journey, it’s much more cyclical.
6:14: There are multiple stages happening at any given time, and it is truly more reflective of a woman’s path and how she walks and moves through life based.
6:23: On her unique skills, gifts, things like that.
6:26: The hero’s journey, you see it everywhere.
6:28: It’s in media, it’s in movies, you know, it’s pervasive.
6:32: But if you ever have felt like you don’t see your story, your journey in the media, in stories in the books that you read, it’s because a lot of things aren’t to your point.
6:39: We don’t talk about that.
6:41: And we just, we operate differently.
6:43: The heroine’s journey relating to depth psychology, the thing to be thinking about is like, on your unique path to individuation, to becoming that whole self.
6:51: How are you You going about doing that and trusting and knowing and seeing that your unique path is going to be, I mean, all three of us have walked different journeys, so we might have similarities, we might have things in common.
7:01: So it’s, it’s, it’s recognizing your own story, your own unfolding, and trusting that that’s OK and that’s good enough, and that’s more than enough.
7:10: Like rather than comparing and trying to think it has to look a certain way.
7:14: Yeah, the hero’s journey is very set.
7:16: It’s like very specific.
7:18: They overcome small obstacles and then there’s the big obstacle at the end.
7:21: And then they come back and they’ve won the prize or they’ve gotten to the other side.
7:25: But that makes so much more sense cause women are cyclical and do, I mean, we’ve talked a lot about this on the podcast now, but it just like we have such a different journey just to men, like we follow the moon, the men follow the sun, all these different things that it makes sense and our, yeah, our journey is never spoken about in that manner.
7:43: Like almost always even in film and TV it’s like we’re, even if the lead is a woman, usually it still has to do with romance or a man or Yeah, can you elaborate a little bit on the cycle?
7:54: Sorry.
7:55: Can you elaborate a little bit more on like the, the cycle that the heroin journey goes through, like what that means?
8:00: Yeah, yeah.
8:01: I believe the, the traditional hero’s journey has 7 steps.
8:05: The heroine’s journey has 9 steps, at least as Maureen Murdoch has outlined it.
8:09: Some of the things are are similar in which there is definitely like experiences to be had, lessons to be learned, things like that.
8:16: But if you think about it, the hero’s journey follows like a timeline, and the heroines journey.
8:20: is in a circle.
8:22: However, you’re at different points at different times, so you might be learning something and going through a challenge at the same time.
8:28: You might be in the dark forest and on stage at the same time.
8:32: So there you’re you’re holding much more all at the same time than you would like, nope, I’m just in this specific chapter right now, this part of the journey, and then I’m gonna move on to the next one.
8:42: Like layered versus linear.
8:44: Yes, yes, which can cause,, what I see a lot with my clients is that it Causes confusion or almost uncertainty or a feeling of being untethered, because you, you’re not able to pinpoint yourself in one exact place, which I think people struggle with, right?
9:01: Because our world and our society, to a point, we live in our mind.
9:04: We love structure, we love A plus B equal’ll C.
9:07: We were really having conversation on the podcast with our with our partners yesterday and how they always look at things as black and white.
9:13: And, you know, I think as women, we’re able to see so much more, and you’re talking about the layers.
9:18: So like, if someone is stuck in that, in their, in their journey of finding their fullest express self, and they’re in this layer and they’re like, I don’t know where the where I am on this journey.
9:27: Like, what would be some words that you would share with them or like something, some some some guidance.
9:31: OK, so the, the one logical, it’s not even logical, but structured piece of framework that I use is an equation, and it’s intuition plus action equals magic.
9:42: So I’ll I’ll break it down a little bit.
9:44: If you are stuck, if you are lost, if you’re in that conundrum, think about what Got you to that place.
9:49: It’s probably a lot of that logical thinking, the shoulds, following other people’s examples of how it’s been done before, things like that.
9:56: When you find yourself in that space, like, if that’s how you got there, I just want you to try on something different and think, OK, OK, how can I go forward doing this in a different way?
10:05: And why not trust myself in that journey.
10:08: So that equation that I listed out, it’s, you have an intuitive knowing, you have a a calling, a sense, a hunch, a gut feeling, however you connect into your intuition.
10:18: You immediately, and by immediately, I don’t mean in the sense of like that second, but in a level of reverence, you take some sort of action on that intuitive knowing, and that end result, that magic is the heroine’s journey.
10:30: It’s stepping into your true path.
10:32: There’s so much that can unfold there, but it’s not ever going to be limiting or keep you in just like a stage by stage process.
10:40: It’s going to allow you to continue unfolding.
10:42: Can I dive in there a little bit.
10:44: So something that comes up when you hear that.
10:45: I’ve even faced this like early on in my journey where I just wasn’t sure if it was intuition or fear.
10:50: Like, am I intuitively listening to the pangs or am I listening to fear that’s keeping me away from the pangs?
10:56: So what is that, what would your thoughts be on that?
10:59: Or how to know that?
11:00: Because I think that’s like the, the back and forth that we fall into.
11:02: Yes.
11:03: So, first and foremost, I’ll say when you are living intuitively, it’s not a life without fear.
11:08: It’s not a life without struggle.
11:10: It’s not a a banishment of these emotions that we have a hard time being.
11:13: with.
11:14: So to me, it might be intuition and fear at the same time.
11:18: However, I do encourage people to think about, I, I’m a tourist, I’m very tactical.
11:24: I liken intuition and fear and ego and anxiety to, to sensations.
11:31: So if my intuition feels velvety soft, my fear might feel like a really tight, itchy sweater.
11:38: And I think, I think about how these things.
11:41: Feel because then I can differentiate as they’re flowing through my mind, because even if I’m living intuitively, my mind is still active, it’s still working, it’s there’s egoic things happening all the time.
11:51: So if I can start to get the feel for what it is that I’m sensing, you can start to delineate between, is this intuition, is this fear?
11:58: The one thing I think about a lot with fear is there’s this narrative of like, if it’s hard, it’s worthwhile, if it, if it’s challenging you, it must be the right thing.
12:08: And I think there’s some truth to that, but I think there’s a difference between choosing hard and choosing your hard.
12:14: And sometimes choosing your heart is going to be fearful.
12:17: You know, the intuitive path is not just going to be sunshine, love, light, rainbows, 100%.
12:23: Yeah.
12:23: If you want, if you want an easy path, take the logical rope.
12:28: Yeah, that is the, the path of least resistance.
12:31: And I would also challenge any of the listeners, if you’re listening to this, you’re looking for something that’s not the logical.
12:36: Whole safe route.
12:37: And so, I love the way that you broke that down cause I also witnessed that in my own process, where like, things will come through, things are in knowing, and then, yes, I’ll hear all the what ifs, the buts, like, if this, if that, like, how am I going to make sense of this?
12:50: How am I going to answer this?
12:51: And I know that that’s just noise, but there’s still like this deep knowing of like, I have to move through the noise, and that’s what you’re kind of talking to, because I know in my body what it feels like, OK, that’s just noise, and this is my truth.
13:04: What if someone doesn’t have that deep connection to their knowing?
13:07: What would be that, right, like creating a deep knowing, because I think that’s taken me years to understand.
13:13: I also think some of it was already built in me like through my parents, like the way that they raised me, but I’m so curious.
13:18: There’s a lot of people that are like, I just don’t have that deep connection to self, they don’t even know what intuition truly feels like, like how you’re saying intuition and fear can feel so similar.
13:28: Like, how, what are your suggestions you give to people to decipher what that?
13:32: What that feels like or what that is.
13:33: So, a couple things.
13:35: One, I like to turn it inside out.
13:36: It’s likely you know how your intuition speaks to you, you’re just not willing to trust it.
13:41: I find more times than that women tell me all the time these intuitive stories, these things that come to them, these downloads this knowing, and the part where they get tripped up is that they’re not trusting what they’re hearing.
13:53: They’re not following that equation.
13:54: Remember that equation has two parts.
13:55: It’s the intuition and it’s the action, and that action requires self-trust.
13:59: However, there are some tactical things that I like to help or bring forward as a way to connect into your intuition.
14:05: First and foremost, I use the human design system, specifically your authority within your human design.
14:09: If you don’t know that, take a look at it.
14:11: Your authority is maybe one way your intuition speaks to you, possibly the loudest.
14:16: So that framework helps.
14:17: The other thing I like to use is it’s a super simple thing, but I call it the coffee cup method, and it’s when you open up your cupboard in the morning, you pick the one that like, you know, is for you that morning.
14:27: It’s very low stakes.
14:29: It’s a very simple exercise and intuitive development.
14:32: But if you in that moment can trust when you hear, pick that blue mug.
14:35: I want to use that blue mug.
14:36: If you pick that blue mug instead of picking the purple one that day, that’s a coin in that self-trust bank.
14:42: I do all the time with my cup.
14:44: Yes, I know which kind of coffee cup I want.
14:46: If there’s like they’re clean or dirty, I’m like, wait, where’s the cup that I really want this morning?
14:49: I want like a bigger one, I want this one cup.
14:51: Yeah, I want that cup.
14:52: And it’s, it’s so small, but these, these Instances, there’s no difference.
14:57: There’s no difference between what cup you’re going to confidently pick in the morning and what major life decision you’re going to make next Tuesday afternoon.
15:05: Yeah, so much.
15:06: You can do it in one, you can do it in the other.
15:08: However, a lot of times women’s intuition speaks to them about really big things.
15:13: And so that’s where a lot of times maybe that fear comes into or feeling like, wait, is this actually for me?
15:17: Because all of a sudden you’re getting information on something that could be life changing, and that can be overwhelming.
15:23: So that’s why I practice these small daily, you know, even hourly exercises, because I’m always wanting to be tapped in and connected, and building that self trust because it takes time, habit, ritual, or something I was gonna say too that I think happens, especially when you’re in relationship with men.
15:40: I’ve noticed a lot of friends of mine have, especially ones with very deep connection to their intuition, will then go to their partner with what they’re feeling, and the partner’s like, that’s crazy, or that doesn’t make sense, and almost dismiss it cause they’re coming from the logical mind and they don’t connect to that.
15:56: So what do you say, like, when, when, cause I think the mind, like the that logical path plays so much into what blocks us.
16:04: Like for me, I, I remember even as I was terrible at multiple choice, because I would always get the answer, and then I’d be like, well, but it could be this, or maybe it’s this, and I feel like we do that as women a lot.
16:15: We talk ourselves out of it.
16:16: So what are like the like a cup, maybe one or two specific exercises?
16:20: I know the mug is one that was so good.
16:22: What’s like one other one maybe that can we talk about somatics a lot on here and like coming back into the body.
16:27: What is like a, are there any creative exercises that you have people do that kind of tie into this?
16:32: Yeah, yeah.
16:33: A couple things.
16:34: One is I often encourage journaling with your opposite hand, because it just shifts your focus into like your your focus on how to write with your opposite hand.
16:45: And then there’s like this peripheral stuff that’s able to go on.
16:48: It’s kind of like the same feeling of like, you know, you might get really good ideas in the shower, like you’re you’re in the zone in the shower and yet stuff is happening, you’re getting these like ideas or fresh perspectives, things like that.
16:58: So that’s one thing.
16:59: The other thing I encourage is something I call receiving time, which is a little bit like meditation.
17:05: It’s always brief, like I always recommend 3 minutes, maybe 4 minutes max, but you’re Simply sitting like you would be in a meditation, but you’re just, you’re waiting to receive.
17:14: You’re not clearing anything that comes up.
17:16: You’re just showing to yourself that if I sit still, if I tune in, something will drop in.
17:21: You don’t need to do anything with it.
17:23: You can follow the equation if you want, but it’s just to prove to yourself that like, this works.
17:28: I am in tune, I am connected to something greater because you’re right, we are in a world that doesn’t really value that.
17:33: And that’s a lot of what spurred me on my mission, why I started, I call it intuitive leadership because I was always in spaces like corporate America, for example, where I would say, you know, I have a gut feeling X Y Z.
17:44: And you can imagine the looks on the executive faces when I when I use that language because that doesn’t fit in there.
17:50: So they’re like, that’s great, right, but we’re gonna do this gut, yeah, we got like we have results and data points.
17:58: Yes, show me the spreadsheet.
18:00: Yeah, whatever.
18:02: I always right, but what’s the proof, yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:06: you brought up something really interesting though about the being in relationship with somebody who is not as intuitive, so I’m very fortunate.
18:13: My husband is very intuitive, like we are connected in that way, however, I do have a lot of clients who are in relationships or friendships or familial relationships where that’s kind of how they’re being perceived.
18:24: It’s like, what are you talking about?
18:26: Like, that’s not a real thing.
18:27: I think in those instances you, you step into that leader role.
18:31: You’re seeing something different, you’re showing a different way of being, and that to me is what intuitive leadership is.
18:35: So for those people who find themselves in those situations, you may need to get creative in how you win people over, how you influence with your intuition, but I don’t think those are lost situations, and I think it’s actually a reflection of something that you’re being called to do, called to demonstrate, and it’s been my experience that everyone eventually comes, I love the stories where Yeah, we have one friend in particular and the, the husband will come back and like, oh my gosh, you were right, it could be months later, and she’s like, mhm, I know, but it’s true, you know, it’s like, But I also really admire her for standing in that, cause she’s really good at standing in it and being like, well, this is, I’m just telling you this is how it is, like, this is, but I love that, it’s so true, yeah.
19:17: It is a chance to step into your power as a woman.
19:20: Yeah.
19:20: The one thing I was gonna say As you are talking about that, I also like what comes up for me is like, circumstances, you know, how you can’t control your circumstances, but still listen to your intuition.
19:29: So I think that’s also a whole nuance, like, we’re not just talking about like being in a relationship, but like, you know, maybe you get a pay that you have to quit your job and like, this is no longer for you, but how am I gonna make money, you know, all these things.
19:40: So like your circumstances also impact how you live with your decisions.
19:45: So I’m so curious, what are your thoughts there?
19:47: Yeah, well, like I said before, the intuitive life, that intuitive path is going to take you to places and spaces you may never have been before.
19:55: And my intuition walked me right back into corporate America once.
19:59: So anything is possible on the other end of following your intuition.
20:03: I think the important thing is to be open minded about what comes through, to be slightly less.
20:09: Logical on how you interpret it.
20:11: And I think the hard thing above all else is focusing more on the what, like what are you being called to do and less on the how, the circumstance in and of itself, the more you try to problem solve or fit the situation perfectly or plug your intuition directly into how you maybe have seen something happen before, like that in and of itself is limiting.
20:31: You’re putting limitations on aren’t needed.
20:34: Yeah, yeah.
20:35: We’re both so excited about this conversation.
20:38: I was gonna say no, I think that just, I mean, that invites people into trusting themselves, is what you’re saying, because you’re saying like, make a decision and whatever is on the other side of it, I’m going to be OK with it, and it’s going to be the next, there’ll be another ping on the other side of that, and it can take you in circles maybe, or it can take you right back to where you were, but to your point, you’re saying it’s OK.
20:56: Yeah.
20:57: Yeah.
20:57: Yeah, a question that I often get is, and I would love to hear how you two have related to this in your journeys, like, I, I listened to my intuition and it felt like a mistake or I, I didn’t end up getting what I wanted.
21:09: Does that mean like my intuition was wrong?
21:12: And first of all, I think there’s like a little bit of like scarcity thinking within that question in and of itself.
21:17: However, the thing I’m always looking for is like the thing under the thing.
21:22: So if you’re following the equation, intuition plus action equals magic.
21:25: If you had a predisposed idea of what that magic should look like, and then that magic doesn’t happen in that way, that’s closed-minded thinking.
21:33: You were, you were already setting up a limitation for what you thought was going to happen.
21:36: So you’re setting expectations for something that you weren’t allowing what really needed to happen or what that true magic was, you know, there’s a form of protection that happens in that too.
21:45: I would be curious, I mean, have either of you ever listened to your intuition and it led you astray or like into a challenge or I would say for me, definitely, I wouldn’t say astray, I’d say it into a challenge for sure.
21:59: I think I grew up with very logical Capricornian parents, and I am a full-on artist, and I never embraced that fully as a child because to I was told like, that’s a hobby, and I kept trying to force myself back into the corporate world or like all these other boxes and nothing felt good.
22:17: So I would say my intuition kept pulling me back to creativity, pulling me back to creativity, and it felt very challenging because my mind was like, no, like this is not, even though I was watching people make a living as artists.
22:31: Because I never saw that or was encouraged of that.
22:33: I felt like that was definitely like stepping into a very big challenge, and also to even embrace like, that I am creative in many ways, like not just one way and being OK with that.
22:42: So, for me, I wouldn’t say it led me astray, but it definitely felt very challenging to step on the other side, but once I did it, it’s been absolute magic, only magic.
22:52: It’s only getting better and better.
22:53: Yeah.
22:54: Yeah, I think once I gave my self permission to listen to it, it has never ever sent me astray.
23:01: But I also have created this deep trust in myself that if it’s not what I was looking for or not what I expected for, I have a very open mind to like, OK, this is not a problem, this is like an opportunity, something that I didn’t see before.
23:13: Like, it’s leading me to something else.
23:14: I’m like, I think about this even in business or Or whatever, right?
23:18: Like you, you set out to build something and I’m only seeing one thing in front of me, by me selling a product or a service, I’m going to see other people’s perspectives and I get the opportunity to like, shift it, do whatever that is.
23:30: So I need to be in the action to also create more intuition using your, your equation, right?
23:36: So like in the action comes more intuition versus like, Just listening to the pings and being like, I’m going to sit here in my pings and I keep getting pinged and yeah.
23:45: I will also say like, I have maybe like at the beginning, cause I did something to a school, like I ended up going down the corporate route.
23:52: I basically went to business school when I really wanted to do psychology and I did that because that’s what my dad said was safe, you know, I was like, I’m gonna do sales, I’m going to be successful, life is going to be good.
24:01: If you would ask me there as a a college student, I loved my psychology classes, anything human behavior, and I wish I would have listened to that because I’m still following intuition still leading me back to that, which is crazy.
24:11: I became a life coach.
24:12: I learned everything about anything when it comes to subconscious, somatics, whatever you can think of, because I’m so obsessed with human behavior.
24:19: And so what I would say is like, it’s funny that even if I don’t listen to it, it just gets louder.
24:25: And I think sometimes we wait for things to get louder until we’re waiting to listen.
24:29: It’s like, I’m screaming at you.
24:32: I’ve been knocking at your door for so long.
24:34: Like, can you please let me in because I’m suffocating.
24:37: And then at that point, I think it’s even more overwhelming and it just creates a whole internal process that I could have probably avoided if I would have listened to it in the first place.
24:46: And the more comfortable I’ve created with my self trust, it’s like, oh, intuition, ping, action, more intuition, more action, you know, like, it’s In the action where I find more intuition.
24:55: Yes, I’m curious too, so like a very quick example, I wanted to go to film school, like when I was in high school.
25:03: I applied to all these film schools.
25:05: My parents are like, you have to get a 4 year degree so that I was only allowed to apply to 4 year universities.
25:09: It didn’t happen.
25:11: I took another route and I ended up in film school in the end anyways, but I really wanted to be in LA or New York, and I was like so bummed that that never happened.
25:18: I ended up in LA maybe 5 years later, but that’s when I met my husband, and the way we met was so kismet that if I had been there, I would have been so in such a different place in my career, like I would have never met him.
25:29: And I feel like, can you give an example to us, cause I’m sure you have many of like how that intuition brought you to, I know you’ve given like the example that you followed it back into corporate and stuff like that, but maybe you can give a specific example of like how your intuition led you into a circumstance like that.
25:46: Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s a funny question to receive now because life feels like that all the time.
25:53: There, there’s less like major moments of like, oh, that wasn’t, you know, think.
25:58: Goodness for that redirect or that timing.
26:01: , I think the latest is probably just, I’m originally from Minnesota and we recently, well, within the last two years, moved out to California, and there was a series of events where it was just like, OK, I, I call them expiration dates, like you have some situations that just are expired, and the longer you sit in them, the worse it is.
26:17: It’s like you can picture a bag of moldy expired red, like, it’s like less and less appealing and less and less stale and hard every time you buy, yeah, just get a and gross.
26:26: So I leave an expired experience, and within 2 months’ time, we have gotten our home ready to rent.
26:33: We have moved across the country, and we’re starting a completely new chapter.
26:37: And the thing I want to highlight there is that in that intuitive action that took a level of courage to take that decision to leave that expired experience.
26:46: So that was challenging, and I, I didn’t have certainty of what was going to be on the other side, but I knew in that moment, like, wow, this is the exact right time that this needs to happen.
26:55: There are ways in which I can look at that situation in hindsight, kind of like in your story of saying like, oh wow, and it had to happen in that time because of this other thing, and so you can, you can do a lot of reflection on your intuitive knowing.
27:07: The thing I, I always caution is like, try not to logify your intuitive knowings.
27:15: Try not to to to take the magic out of them.
27:18: Like, oh, I had this ping and then this happened.
27:20: I saw 11.
27:20: 11 and then this happened like, don’t try to solve it.
27:25: I know, like in a way you’re also looking for you’re putting logic to it, you’re like, I did this result.
27:34: OK, just proving yourself versus disconnecting you from your intuition.
27:38: Yes, yes, yeah.
27:40: It takes the magic out of it is one thing, and it doesn’t leave room for self.
27:46: Because you’re what you’re really doing there is you think you’re building trust because you’re like, oh my gosh, yeah, I saw the butterfly, and then this thing came in, like, yes, like it’s good to be aware and in tune of how that’s happening, but also you’re, there’s a level of distrust there.
27:59: Did you not trust the butterfly when you saw it?
28:01: You only trusted it because you got the thing you wanted?
28:04: What if you didn’t get the thing you wanted?
28:05: Did you, do you have less trust in the butterfly?
28:07: The butterfly is always the trusted part of that situation.
28:11: That’s the one less of the.
28:14: Yeah, it’s so true.
28:15: We do try to log logic.
28:17: Yeah, I just made that up.
28:17: Yeah, I like it.
28:19: I, let’s get, let’s stick with it.
28:20: I feel like we do try to justify so much of even what I just said, like, oh if this didn’t happen and this didn’t, which I do believe that is the magic, but we can exactly like get to that place where it’s like, I saw an owl, it must mean this or like, you know, and we want, instead of just saying, oh, that’s sometimes when I see like animals or things.
28:38: And I feel it’s, it’s like a it’s like an affirmation.
28:41: I don’t question anymore.
28:42: I’m just like, thank you.
28:43: OK.
28:44: You know, like, yes, got it, you know, instead of being like, well, what’s that tied to, and does that mean this like, so, yeah, they’re to me how I use signs symbolism, things like that.
28:53: Yes, they can always have a more more sacred and deeper meaning for sure.
28:58: However, in those instances, it’s a it’s your bridge to the present moment.
29:01: It’s just a call to Hey, what’s here right now?
29:04: Where’s your mind at?
29:05: Is it in the past?
29:06: Is it in the future?
29:07: Every single time I see a hummingbird, I am always future explaining, like, I’m, I’m so far ahead of myself and a hummingbird will fly right in front of me and I’m like, yeah, like, just get back right here.
29:16: I’m gonna a walk.
29:17: It’s beautiful.
29:17: Like, let’s just stay here versus somewhere else.
29:20: I love that.
29:21: It sounds as as you’re talking about it too, like there’s a sense of trust, but there’s also a sense of unattachment.
29:26: And more in the trust that you’re just listening to yourself, because I think what you’re talking to and what you were talking to was more of the attachment to how something looks or how something is represented or how something comes out, and you’re really talking about the art of trusting yourself and being unattached to the outcome as more as just being with it.
29:43: Something I notice I do too is using those totems as an example is I’ll have to look at that totem immediately, like, what does that mean?
29:49: You know, when really the times where I’ve been again in the presence and I see two Ls or I see Something.
29:56: I go with, when I go with just my first instinct of what it means, that’s what it means.
30:00: It’s almost like dreams, like you, you have dreams and you can interpret them, you can Google them and interpret them, or you could just ask yourself, well, what is that, what am I feeling when I rethink what that was?
30:10: I feel like that’s more powerful.
30:12: Would you agree, like in trusting your intuition versus trying to really find the answer, or have someone else tell you what it is.
30:18: Yes, yes.
30:19: There’s a couple different approaches that I like to take at this, like, I’m a, I’m a big believer in that immediate knowing.
30:25: Like whatever that thing pulled you first, like, yes, trust that, absolutely.
30:30: I think there are places or points in time where it’s beneficial to go deeper.
30:34: It’s not to go deeper outsourcing your intuition, it’s to go deeper within your intuition.
30:38: So, let’s say you, I, once I had a dream about an owl, and as I was watching the owl, a wolf came through and I’m, I’m, you know, there’s a lot of immediate associations that I can have with that dream.
30:49: So what I do is I’m like, OK, what is that immediate association?
30:52: And then I’m going deeper.
30:53: I’m like, well, what else?
30:54: Does that remind me of?
30:55: What else is coming up right now in this moment as I’m thinking about that dream, and I start to kind of go down this rabbit hole of depth, when you talk about depth psychology of connecting, like, this is a message from my subconscious, my unconscious, like, what, what am I pulling up from this pool of, you know, my world, my psyche that’s unseen, that’s underneath my life.
31:15: And so there, there’s a place to go deeper on that, but yes, absolutely.
31:19: I think that that initial immediate thing that you feel and sense, like, go with that.
31:23: And I wanna touch on one thing that I said is outsourcing your intuition.
31:27: Like a lot of times when you just when you get kind of hyperactive with the sign and they made it like Google search or like, I’ll get texts sometimes from people being like, I just saw a deer on my walk, like, what does this mean?
31:37: And I’m like, well, what do you think it means?
31:39: And I’m not, I’m not trying to be like a pain in the, you know what, but I’m just truly like, no that that question is for you, not for me.
31:45: Yeah, exactly you that guidance I can give you that what comes up for me, but that’s.
31:49: Then that becomes, that’s something for me.
31:51: As you said that, I think about like, what do they call people that do readings for you and they tell you the future, psychics and stuff like that.
31:58: I always like internally had resistance to going to them because I’m always like, I really want to go, but then I’m also like, you’re giving your power to someone else to tell you what you already know.
32:08: Yeah.
32:09: Or even allowing them to like implant ideas.
32:11: Yeah, Ilant ideas or create seeds and stuff like that, which I’m, I’m interested and I believe so much more.
32:17: I’m like, I already know what that looks like.
32:19: It’s just a matter of me connecting to like what that is and also like, my life can, you know, I mean, I want to know how to say this.
32:26: I’m excited for the ride of taking action.
32:28: Like, surprise me.
32:30: I think people find a lot of safety and like, well, what, what came up for you?
32:33: Yeah.
32:34: What are you seeing in me?
32:35: You know, I feel like life wouldn’t be as fun.
32:37: If you knew all the things that were coming for you either though, it’s like, we like this I don’t know, the surprises are fun.
32:42: But a lot of people want to know, you know, like that’s, I mean, that’s what we’re we’re challenging right now.
32:47: We’re challenging in this conversation, like someone that wants to know how things are going to be, how they’re going to look like, they love, they find so much safety and like, my entire day in my routine looks like this, right?
32:58: And you’re so much about saying like, let’s actually throw all that out, throw it out the window, whatever your routine is, like, I did something similar for my birthday, like I literally just followed the pings to your point, and I was like, what do I need right now?
33:10: What do I need this?
33:10: What I do that?
33:11: And I love that practice because in that itself you’re like start to also gain information that just speaks to your intuition.
33:19: And like you get really familiar with the language of your intuition.
33:22: I use a different language.
33:23: I say, you know, we all have access to our bodies’ language, we just don’t know how to speak it or listen to it, but like every single person does, it’s just a matter of you connecting to and listening to what it sounds like.
33:32: Yeah.
33:32: Yeah.
33:33: And that and that your birthday experiment, that is going to bring up a lot of resistance for people because they’re gonna say, oh, I’m too busy to do that, oh I have this going on.
33:40: I have there’s going to be a level of resistance and And listeners right now might feel like I’m a bit of a mind reader just by simply saying that, but like, notice your points of resistance in your day to day life.
33:51: Because wherever that resistance is, there’s probably something for you to pay attention to.
33:54: Whenever you’re telling yourself you can’t do something, especially when you’re learning about something that might develop you, something that might grow you, like, I encourage people to lean into that.
34:03: Either lean into it to confirm, yes, that’s not, that’s not me, that’s not for me, or to lean into.
34:08: To say, hey, yeah, what if I what if I tried this on?
34:11: Yeah.
34:12: And you need to, I always say you have to, you don’t know anything unless you experience it.
34:16: It’s really unless you try and everyone don’t even give themselves the opportunity to experience it.
34:21: And so there’s so much juice in the experience and you can always say, that wasn’t for me.
34:26: Now I know what that feels like and I can actually listen to that.
34:29: Or that was for me.
34:30: Wow, that was a different flavor, a different Feeling that I’ve never felt before.
34:34: I want more of that.
34:35: And then you can get to what a lot of people here is like full body knows, full body yeses, and what that actually sounds like for you.
34:41: I think then you can realize too that it’s hot.
34:43: There is, there’s no wrong way, no wrong path, no wrong desk like, I don’t look back and think I wish I had gone to film school instead, or I wish I had done something else cause I feel like it’s all leading you to where you’re right now, like where you are right now.
34:56: Yeah.
34:56: Yeah, and we’re, we can only ever be where we are right now.
35:00: Yeah, exactly.
35:01: Yeah.
35:01: Well, I would love to make this a little bit more about you.
35:05: So one of the, thank you for all of that, when I want to say to like acknowledge, like, that conversation was so helpful, the way that you broke it down and like, literally, intuition plus action equals magic is just OK.
35:16: nominal thing, and I hope that you just hold on to that and continue to carry it on because it’s like so cool to hear that.
35:21: , and I want to know about you.
35:24: So like, let’s connect to your intuition,, in the moment, as I have like a lot of thought.
35:28: But where are you feeling called to more fully express yourself?
35:32: Where in your life are you feeling called to be more of you?
35:35: I am being called right now to work more with my anger and that emotion because I will stay neutral, and I prefer peace over everything else.
35:48: And I’m learning how to piece anger and integrate that into my life.
35:53: I’ve had things over the years where I can, I can.
35:56: Feel that seed of anger, and I think it starts like that, and I think it festers.
36:00: And I’ve been fortunate to not have a lot of anger in my life, but I’m, I’m studying my anger, how it presents itself, how I how I now express it versus how I would like to express it, because it’s either it stays within, or it comes out.
36:13: I’m snapping at my husband.
36:15: I’m, you know, sending a text.
36:18: It’s so polar right now, and I’m learning how to make it more of an a spectrum so that I can be angry and creative.
36:28: I can be angry and expressive.
36:29: I can work with it rather than have it be this very like other thing or outside of me thing.
36:36: And yeah.
36:38: And I’m curious because I just did an email on this, and I, I got some crickets, usually get some responses.
36:44: What’s your relationship like anger to anger?
36:47: Oh, I have built my relationship with anger, and I love anger now.
36:51: How do I say that?
36:52: Like, I did not always feel actually, because most of my life I was soft, I was sweet, I You know, I didn’t know what it felt like to be angry and express anger, and it wasn’t until I did my somatic certification where I got to access anger, and I was like, wow, I feel so much better.
37:08: And so like in my day to day life, even with Nick, if I feel frustrated, him and I have exercises like babe, I feel anger and I have like really healthy ways to express it, but they’re not at him.
37:20: They’re all through like body expression.
37:22: And so that has really helped me tap into it and be like, OK, and then it like literally moves through you, and then I find more peace afterwards, because what I’ve noticed is like, once I created more space for anger, I actually don’t get stuck in it.
37:39: Like it, you know, as someone who suppressed her emotions for so long and didn’t want to feel anger, it would come up as, like, passive aggressiveness.
37:47: Or like me shutting down and not wanting to talk to you, or just like, no, leave me alone.
37:51: I don’t want to talk to you.
37:52: I have nothing to say and like internally I’m having all this experience of like, I shouldn’t feel this way.
37:57: Why am I feeling this way?
37:58: I’m trying to make sense of it.
37:59: And what I’ve learned with anger specifically and just like any emotion, is like, if we can learn how to express it in the moment, we’ll actually find more clarity as to why we feel angry and listen to that pain, if that makes sense.
38:11: Yeah.
38:12: Yeah.
38:12: Yeah, the, it’s really interesting to talk about anger as it relates to self-expression, because typically how I had worked with anger before, and I want, I wanna hear your response too, Sam, is I would go for a run or do a really hard workout like I could, I could move the anger through my Body, and yet if I still felt it after a workout, I didn’t really have a way to do something with it, and it’s that like next piece or it feels like that’s my next step, is that like, expression, like, OK, how do I use words to describe this emotion rather than just my body.
38:43: I can help you.
38:44: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I will, I wanna acknowledge that the fact that like, you know, a lot of people, a lot of therapists will say like go for a run.
38:52: Even like a really great way to express anger is at the gym by lifting weights, but the key thing is like actually channeling it while you’re doing it.
39:00: I think people are just more experiencing the actual feeling of like, this feels better, but not really connected to the actual anger where it’s coming from and letting themselves actually go there.
39:10: So they tend to use like the run or the the gym of lifting weights as an outlet, and they feel like an initial relief, but to your point, but you still feel it because you’re not really connected to, well, why am I feeling angry?
39:24: And that could be like, which part of me is angry, which part of my inner child is feeling angry, you know, what’s coming up for me, all that stuff is kind of like underneath the hub.
39:32: It’s like, you’re scratching the surface by.
39:36: By, by screaming even, you know, some people that do express anger, like, they’ll yell at you, like people that are quote unquote explosive, but they’re not really connected to why, right?
39:47: They feel the initial relief and they’re like, OK, I feel better that I yelled at you, but they’re still angry, you know.
39:53: So yeah, go ahead.
39:54: I mean, mine was in between both of you.
39:56: So with my friends, like I never, I think it showed up as passive aggressive.
40:01: really more internal conflict, because I’m definitely an avoider of conflict and anger.
40:07: I didn’t like feeling it, I didn’t like expressing it, and I always kind of was raised with like, you don’t put your stuff on anybody else.
40:13: You just like deal with it.
40:14: I was definitely a self soother, so I think I would stew a lot in my mind.
40:18: With my family, I was more verbal.
40:20: So I would, I get really angry and I’d say something really mean, and I remember specifically in high school, or maybe I was like 18.
40:27: I got in a pretty bad fight with my brother, and I remember just saying something so hateful, and in that moment I was like, I never want to express this way again.
40:36: And that’s when I really started to like step out of myself and do more of the like reflective of just like, what caused that and why.
40:45: And for me, I started mental, and then I went to more like physical release.
40:49: But I think being really practicing, and it took a long time, but like really practicing being the abs.
40:54: Server, and then it would get easier and in moments when I’d feel myself want to say something really mean, I’d be like,, it’s not going to be productive, you know.
41:01: And that’s really what helped me.
41:03: And then going more as I learned more about movement or like breath work and those sort of things, I could channel it in a healthier way.
41:09: And then I really worked on the triggers, because now I don’t feel anger as much or I’m able to pass through it way faster because I don’t feel the trigger is there anymore.
41:19: And I feel like the triggers Really come from our family.
41:22: And then they show up in our partnerships and our friendships.
41:24: So like that was really helpful, like being the observer, and then really reflecting on that.
41:29: And I also want to say there, like that was really beautiful.
41:31: I want to say like anger is not bad.
41:33: I think sometimes we try to find ways to say, well, how can I get rid of this?
41:37: Can I heal the trigger?
41:38: Can I heal the wound?
41:39: And there’s a lot of, I, to anyone that thinks that anger is bad, especially someone as me, like my, my sister is like so aggressive, and I would see He get angry.
41:47: I was like, well, that’s bad.
41:48: I never want to act that way.
41:50: But anger is just a literally expression.
41:55: It’s a primal, it’s in part of us, and then we actually need access to it.
41:58: And so creating a deeper relationship with anger has been, oh my gosh, so healing and welcoming to be like, I’m not going to try and get rid of you.
42:06: I’m just gonna be with you, because we can get angry in so many different ways in our life.
42:11: I mean, I woke up grumpy today.
42:14: Yeah, me too.
42:15: I’m like a day before, I’m my period and it’s like, like I like say I’m grumpy.
42:20: And then, yeah, I was gonna say to you like maybe you didn’t get crickets, like you didn’t get responses because I think not a lot of people, they don’t know how to how to welcome anger.
42:29: They see anger as bad, and it’s really just an emotion and usually under anger, there’s some kind of sadness, shame or guilt.
42:36: And so we’re at a level where there’s more underneath.
42:40: that people can get more curious about,, but that’s what we’re talking about here, yeah.
42:45: For me, it wasn’t like the anger that was upsetting to me.
42:47: It was like the words that were coming from the anger and realizing that it was just a misappropriation of I was feeling, yeah, and you can go there like I I’ve said some mean things to my sister before when I’m like I’ve younger me when I would suppress things and like I would know, you know, you know, you just and you know.
43:06: Anger is not only anger outward, anger is also anger towards an inward, and this is where you see a lot of people not to be triggering, but you know, suicidal thoughts, taking like, you know, harming themselves, eating disorders.
43:19: There’s more of like an internal like, I’m angry at myself, so anger doesn’t always have to look externally, it can be anger at yourself.
43:25: And so also getting curious with that piece.
43:28: I that’s your, I’m so excited for you.
43:29: I I think.
43:33: Such a beautiful gift, and I’m so glad that you got the ping to like want to dive deeper into that.
43:38: Yeah.
43:38: Yeah, I couldn’t evade it.
43:39: It came in a dream, so I love it.
43:41: Of course it did.
43:43: Yeah, there’s your pin.
43:44: Yeah.
43:45: I love that.
43:45: Yeah.
43:46: Anything else you want to share with the audience, listeners before we wrap up?
43:50: Do you feel called to?
43:51: No.
43:51: Do you feel complete?
43:52: Yes, they do.
43:54: Yeah, that was such a great conversation and thank you so much.
43:56: Again, this wouldn’t have happened if you didn’t reach out, and I think get to know you and I’m just so we’re both so excited to get to know you so much.
44:05: Yeah, for sure, anything that you need.
44:07: Well, how can someone, I always forget this part and I’m like you get this every time.
44:13: , how can someone connect with you?
44:15: How can they find you?
44:16: How can they get to know you even further behind the beyond the podcast?
44:19: Yeah, so first place would be my website.
44:21: It’s when you can put it in the show notes, but it’s Eme andco.com.
44:25: I have something, there’s a Resource tab.
44:26: It’s called my apothecary, but it’s like all these resources that I’ve made over the years that I love for people to tap into and use and help you more fully express yourself, tap into your intuition, whatever journey you’re on.
44:38: And then the social media I’m on the most is Instagram, so it’s Eme.
44:41: Ann.
44:42: OK, we’ll put it all in the show notes too, so people can connect right to you.
44:45: I love that it’s called Apothecary.
44:47: That’s amazing.
44:48: Well, that’s what I, that’s what I noticed I was doing because people would be like, I just had to gal texting me.
44:52: She’s like, I’m going to a solo trip this weekend in the woods, like I want to do some journaling, like, what do you recommend?
44:56: And I’m just like in my mind pulling these little guides and gifts that I’ve built over the years.
45:00: I’m like, Here is your custom bundle of development.
45:03: That’s amazing.
45:04: Have fun.
45:05: And this is how I work.
45:08: I’m like that’s nothing but an apothecary.
45:09: Yeah, I mean everything from the name of your company to your equation, like I just feel like you bring yourself to that and really beautiful.
45:16: Thank you.
45:16: Thank you so much.
45:17: Thank you for coming.
45:18: Thank you.
45:19: Thank you so much for tuning in.
45:21: We really appreciate you being here.
45:23: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
45:28: Also, we would love to hear from you.
45:31: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
45:38: We are here to support you and encourage you.
45:40: See you on the next one.
In this episode, we dive into:
- Understanding Intuition
- What blocks our intuition?
- The difference between fear and intuition.
- Practices to build and strengthen your intuition.
- Is my intuition wrong when things don’t turn out as expected?
- The Hero’s Journey vs. The Heroine’s Journey
- Comparing two transformative paths.
- Trusting your unique journey and intuitive path.
- Building Inner Trust
- What it feels like to develop a deeper trust with yourself.
- How to navigate life’s challenges with self-assurance and confidence.
- Reconnecting with your inner voice when it feels distant.
- Navigating Intuition in Daily Life
- How to balance life circumstances with intuitive guidance.
- Defining the intuitive path: what it means and how to trust it.
- Problem-solving vs. intuition: how relying solely on logic limits your potential.
- The Intuition Equation
- The formula that can unlock your intuitive power and guide your decisions.
Links & Resources:
Growth Apothecary (Free Resources): https://www.evermeandco.com/resources
Connect with Kelsey:
Instagram: www.instagram.com/everme.and.co
About Kelsey:
Kelsey is an intuitive leader, life and business coach, speaker, writer, poet, spiritual healer, and space holder. She owns Everme + Co, is a soon-to-be-published author, and is pursuing a master’s degree in depth psychology and creativity. Above all else, she is a master connector who connects you deeper to yourself, to other people, and to your big ideas, intuition, and creative spirit. She uses her “spicy grandma” vibes, Human Design, and her signature framework, “intuition + action = magic” to help you live and lead outside of the mandatory “should” matrix. Kelsey splits time between Dana Point, CA, and St. Paul, MN with her husband Dane, and their dog Pico.
If you’re ready to reconnect with your inner voice, trust your journey, and embrace your unique path, this episode is for you.
Join The Fully Expressed Community, where you can be surrounded by other women who are also on the same path of personal growth, healing, and uncovering their authentic expression. Being in a community surrounded by others can truly be one of the most supporting and healing containers to support your personal invitation.
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