Episode #65: Healing the 5 Wounds of Calladita Culture (“Quiet Culture”)

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0:30: Enjoy this new episode.
0:34: Welcome to today’s episode on the Fully Express podcast.
0:38: We have a really exciting guest that’s going to bring you a whole new flavor of conversation.
0:45: To introduce our guest today, we have Pam.
0:48: I should ask you, Cora.
0:53: OK, so Pam Covarrubias is a coach, a clinical EFT practitioner, a speaker, a podcaster, and a recovering procrastinator.
1:02: Grounded in liberation principles and trauma informed practices, she supports first generation women, femmes and femmes in the US, rejecting Calladita culture.
1:12: If you don’t know what calladita is, it means calladita means quiet.
1:16: So she’s rejecting quiet culture.
1:19: She advocates against silencing and submission as the host and as the globally acclaimed podcast Cafe Pam.
1:26: Pam shares candid, thoughtful, provoking insights from diverse.
1:29: Voices, offering valuable resources for mental health, business success, community, and driving positive change.
1:39: Thank you so much for being here.
1:41: I think that in itself just kind of captures everything that you’re doing, and I’m so excited to share this with the listeners because I think most of us, when we talk about Calladita culture, right, so many of us don’t realize that we are experiencing a system that wants us to Be quiet, suppressed, quiet, worker bees, yeah, overlooked, overwhelmed, underpaid and silence.
2:06: Yeah, for sure.
2:08: Thank you.
2:08: Thank you so much for being here.
2:09: We’re excited.
2:11: I would love to kind of kick things off as like, what was your experience with Calladita culture or quiet culture in your world?
2:18: Yeah, it started a long time ago, and I would even say generations, frankly, because growing up a Latina, first generation.
2:25: eldest daughter.
2:27: I grew up with a very Catholic grandmother, and she was like an avid every day, 6 o’clock, she was on her way to mass.
2:35: And I was that little girl that questioned like, why?
2:39: Why do you go to church every day?
2:40: Why do we eat that thing?
2:42: Why the virgin?
2:43: Why not?
2:44: Like, why?
2:45: Why was Jesus a man?
2:46: And like, why?
2:48: And so that was the first time with asking my grandma questions when she Saida Bonita, you look prettier when you’re quiet, and that is something that kept repeating itself, that saying throughout my lifetime.
3:03: But the first time I remember I lost my voice was when I was 6 in kindergarten.
3:08: And it wasn’t from parents or from people in my family, it was from my peers.
3:14: So I was 6, I was in kindergarten and I loved theater and I was picked to be the main character for a play.
3:21: And so I was one in the whole kindergarten class.
3:25: And so all the other kids were like, oh, you, you think you’re special, you think blah, blah blah.
3:30: And so that’s when the first time I lost my voice.
3:33: I performed, but there’s a picture of me when I’m 6 and my friend is next to me, and I’m the only one that was a chicken, because it was the main character.
3:40: I don’t remember the storyline.
3:40: I need to ask my mom about that.
3:42: But she, my friend was a rabbit, and so she’s in her rabbit costume, and I’m in the chicken costume and I’m the Only one that’s yellow.
3:49: And you can see it in my face, how I’m so sad because that was the first time that I was silenced.
3:55: That was the first time I felt like I didn’t belong.
3:58: That was the first time I didn’t feel my power, because while I was the main character, I wasn’t.
4:03: And so that took me into this like journey of not really owning my power, my truth and who I was.
4:09: And so then, you know, life became life and here we are.
4:12: I love that.
4:13: I mean, that’s a powerful story.
4:15: Yeah.
4:16: And it’s so little.
4:17: Yeah, how did you remember that though?
4:19: They’re a lot of work.
4:20: Yeah, yeah, so how did, like, yeah, how did you bring yourself to remember like that was the moment?
4:24: Well, I do tapping, so I’ve been tapping for 20 years.
4:28: I discovered tapping when I realized I was procrastinator.
4:31: So one of my teachers literally stopped me after one project and said, this could be worthy of an award, but because you did it yesterday, we’re not going to do anything with it.
4:44: But the idea, the concept, I studied design and so she was like the idea, the concept, everything could be a word like I could send this to get an award, but it’s halfway done.
4:56: You did it yesterday.
4:56: I know you did it yesterday.
4:57: I can tell you yesterday, you know, like it was, it was just you procrastinate.
5:01: We got a month, yeah, and then I was like the night before pulling out.
5:06: I got it.
5:06: I’ll do it.
5:10: I’ve done that.
5:10: I, yeah, there’s like type A people sometimes are procrastinators as well, because we’re like, I could do that so fast.
5:16: Well, also there’s something about.
5:18: I think that you just said, the thrive under pressure, the amount of times that I hear that like, I’ll I’ll get shit done.
5:24: When I have to, you know what I mean, there’s like this pressure point that we’re waiting to be up against the wall, and you’re like, OK, now I can execute it.
5:31: Yeah.
5:31: But we also, I think in a lot of ways, some we trust ourselves to execute, so I’d love your perspective on that.
5:36: Like, why do we get to a place of like, well, I thrive when I’m up against the wall.
5:42: I’ve got one hour, yeah, I can do in one day.
5:45: Yeah.
5:45: Can do it.
5:46: Yes, yeah, and it’s proven like there’s signs that says there’s certain people that actually do thrive under pressure and based on my research and we’ll talk about the wounds, it’s the wind of power, because when you, you can undercompensate or you can overcompensate in the wind of power, and the wind of power is when you either give your power away or take it all the way and you protect yourself from somebody taking it away.
6:06: And so pushing things off is like you saying, I’m going to take my power when I need to, and I want to.
6:12: And so like a sense of control as well.
6:16: Yeah, yeah, it’s like I could, I get to decide when I use my power, not when you tell me that I’m gonna use my power or so like I’m choosing, yeah,-huh.
6:27: Because I can in this moment.
6:29: Not when you assigned it to me, but when I get it done, that makes sense.
6:32: That makes a lot of sense.
6:34: I’m getting a little bit chilled yeah I’m like, I see myself, we’re people we’re recovering people pleasers, both of us, so I feel like that’s very and I’m sure it’s a wonderful commitment.
6:41: So that led me into this.
6:47: Deep exploration.
6:48: I was 19 years old and I was like, I’m broken, because I, I would wonder, when you get those assignments, you literally get a month, you know, and so I would often like go to class and see my peers literally like for weeks, planning and doing all the things, and I’m like, oh, I’ll do that when I want to, because I can.
7:06: And so that when my teacher told me that, it really led me into the spiral of like, oh, maybe I am broken.
7:13: My my brain is broken because I can’t bring myself to do that, meaning like I can’t when she assigns it, I can’t go to my desk and get on it.
7:22: Yeah, yeah, it just didn’t work like that.
7:24: And so that led me into this exploration of how do I fix my brain?
7:27: That’s when I discovered tapping 20 years ago.
7:29: That’s amazing.
7:30: You’re finding it then.
7:31: So I started tapping and I realized that first and foremost, the first thing that happened was that my nervous system got regulated.
7:38: So I wasn’t feeling anxious.
7:39: I wasn’t feeling overwhelmed, and I could think clearly.
7:43: And so that’s when I realized it wasn’t necessarily that my brain was broken, is that I was just very anxious.
7:50: And so then I went deeper into my exploration and I realized I had what science calls ADHD.
7:56: And so It was this moment of how do I fix my brain, but then now I know that my brain is not broken, it’s just different.
8:05: It’s just wired a little bit different.
8:07: And you know, if you’re into human design, one of my friends is a human design expert, she’s like, you’re just a manifesting generator.
8:12: You’re supposed to do.
8:14: Are you a man?
8:14: Yeah, OK.
8:16: Yeah, she’s a man.
8:17: I’m a projector.
8:19: My partner’s a projector.
8:21: That’s fun.
8:22: Yeah.
8:24: We, we should get get to meet your friend because I want to have someone on here and talk about shout out to E.
8:32: She lives in Vegas.
8:33: OK, cool.
8:34: Yeah, she’s awesome.
8:34: She wrote a book, Human Design my DC or something like that.
8:37: I think too as a fellow creative because I’m also very creative.
8:40: You just naturally are kind of ADHD because there’s so many interests and you’re like, I wanna paint, I wanna do this, I wanna do that, I wanna bake, I wanna do all these things, whatever your creative endeavors are, and I saw you talk, I’ll ask you a question later about that, but I saw on your social media you talk about art and things like that a lot, but yeah, I think that also just comes with a little ADHD like I feel like I have it too.
9:01: Totally, totally.
9:02: Yeah, like our brains think different.
9:04: Yeah, call it whatever you want.
9:06: You’re just very like, into all the things, and I’m like, sure, whatever.
9:10: And so, so all that exploration of like, how do I fix my brain led me into where I am today, and through all the discoveries, I got trained in EFT and through the training, you’re supposed to do a lot of peer tapping sessions, and I went into inner child work.
9:29: And so I found my six year old who was very very much in pain, and her voice was taken away, and her identity, and that led her to her own knowing of who she was to be forgotten, because she then went into what people will accept.
9:46: Because if I’m in my main character era, when I’m 6 and people won’t accept that, how do I grow up to be one?
9:52: And so then the people policing came in and, you know, all the things.
9:56: And I feel like you’re breaking multiple, like you said, it’s not just generational, it’s cultural.
10:00: I have so many friends.
10:02: growing up here that were also first generation from Mexico, and all of them had an issue using their voice, and I feel like that is a very, and they all grew up very strong like strongly Catholic, you know, strong father figures.
10:15: I say it also shows up in a lot of cultures.
10:17: Yeah, like it’s not just yeah, culture.
10:19: Like I have clients that are from Muslim culture.
10:22: Like it’s just any Indian cultureslim culture there’s a lot of parents.
10:27: You don’t say anything back.
10:28: You say you’re thankful and you’re grateful, and that’s it, you know what I mean.
10:31: And then also there’s this, I’m sure there’s also in Hispanic culture, but there’s this one we love to give, but there’s also some ego in how much we give, right?
10:39: Like we are the givers in the family and we self-sacrifice.
10:43: We are the martyr.
10:45: And so it shows up in like a lot of different cultures.
10:48: Yeah, yeah, culture actually is rooted in Marianismo.
10:52: In Marianismo, you know, machismo, we talk, we often talk about machismo.
10:55: Marianismo is the glorification of the persona of The virgin, so good.
11:04: Yeah, like you’re a good girl, good girl.
11:10: And so that of like respect the authority and give, but stay humble, you know, you don’t want to brag, all those things.
11:18: I feel like I, I, I really wanna meet, I mean, it’s so interesting.
11:25: I feel like this is just so common among women.
11:27: I know it comes up for men too, but I feel like it’s Very common for women that are just in these archetypes or are feeling this throughout their day.
11:35: Like, I don’t want to celebrate myself.
11:36: I don’t want to brag.
11:37: I don’t, I wanna, I don’t want to ask for what I want because for some reason it’s going to make you upset or it’s going to take away from you.
11:43: And I can’t.
11:44: And that’s also the mother energy feeds into that as well, because then it’s like, well, now I sacrifice for my kids.
11:49: Now I sacrifice for my family.
11:51: And then that bleeds into work and then it never ends.
11:54: It’s like you never put your cycles.
11:56: Yeah, totally.
11:57: And that’s why I call italita culture.
12:00: Because it’s not coming from one person or from one idea, it’s a system, from a combination of things, you know, we don’t blame like, oh, this is the way that my grandma raised.
12:09: No, it’s because she was also raised that way.
12:12: It’s like generations of that, yeah, yeah.
12:14: So where do you think the system came?
12:16: Where do you think it came from?
12:18: A lot of it comes from a lot of things, so of course the patriarchy.
12:21: It comes from Marianismo that I’ve already mentioned.
12:24: It comes from that good girl persona or good girl conditioning or whatever it’s called.
12:30: It comes from also The idea that we need to prove ourselves in a way and to your point earlier it totally applies to multiple cultures.
12:40: I like the culture because I’m a Latina.
12:42: I created it from my experience, but anytime I talk about it, people are like, oh look I’m like, yeah, this whole other place, but I resonate because it’s less about the origin, I think, and more about how it applies to us and how the wound gets into.
12:59: Who we are and we just kind of like you think religion has to play a part with it?
13:02: OK.
13:03: I think even school too, like it’s rooted in even just our capitalistic nature that we have a bell system that you don’t talk back to the teacher, that you’re quiet and you listen and then you go through the school system, and then it’s like, now you get a job, now you have a boss.
13:15: I mean, that’s the typical path for most people across all boards, you know, or you go work for someone, whatever capacity that looks like.
13:24: Yeah.
13:25: And it’s that that constant conditioning of respect and being controlled and like made to feel almost less than, yeah.
13:34: Amazing.
13:35: So what are some, I wanna keep going on the wounds.
13:37: You mentioned one of the wounds.
13:38: There’s 555 bones.
13:40: So what are the wounds?
13:41: So there’s 5 wounds that it’s the wound of silence, so that’s the one that keeps us quiet, but here’s the thing, the 5 wounds and This, the wounds came from my own exploration and all the wounds that I’ve healed.
13:53: We started with 7 and now we’re we’re down to 5.
13:56: And also from the hundreds of people that I’ve coached and I tend to attract high achieving, first gens, eldest daughters, you know, not necessarily all Latinas.
14:04: I also attract men.
14:06: And the interesting thing that happens with men is that they were raised by a woman.
14:10: And so those things were passed on, even on to.
14:14: Yeah, yeah.
14:15: So we have the wind of silence that keeps us quiet, the wound of commitment that keeps us stuck, the wound of power that keeps us overwhelmed, the wound of have them here, you know, when I’m put in this spot, I don’t remember.
14:29: The wound of identity that keeps us overlooked, and the wind of worth that keeps us underpaid.
14:34: That’s a hard one.
14:35: That might be the hard one.
14:39: I think that’s my hardest one.
14:40: Yeah, it’s a big one.
14:42: That’s the thing that they each wound, you can underdo it or overdo it.
14:48: Because I’ve come across, for example, even within the Latino community, so I grew, grew up Mexican Catholic, so that is very like head down, be quiet, submissive.
14:59: The expectation of me is to just be quiet.
15:02: I talked to my Friends who are Caribbean from like Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, and they overcompensate they’re much louder and louder louder, but that’s the overcompensation because the silencing happens with you’re too loud.
15:19: Yeah.
15:20: And so like I, I undercompensate the silence and I’m like, oh yeah, I am going to be the good girl, otherwise I get in trouble.
15:26: There’s a different side of it.
15:28: Of the the wind of silence that’s like, I’m going to be the loudest in the room and I’m going to be seen.
15:33: Yeah, but that’s overly compensated.
15:35: And then they tell like they’re too much.
15:37: I had a Cuban friend that she was all, people always said, you’re too big, you’re too much, which is also the same silence is a way of silencing.
15:43: Yeah, I’m Peruvian, so, and so my parents, my family is loud.
15:48: Yeah, in the best way, and I’m also like the more quiet one, submissive ones to a point where I’m like, can we stop scraping.
15:54: Also, like, why is the TV on at the same time in the background on full volume?
15:58: Her mom is amazing though.
15:59: She’s like, yeah, yeah, so pure love, pure luck, but like there’s a lot of loudness and even when you go back to when we go back to Peru, like sitting around the kitchen table, everyone’s like, everyone’s trying to get their voice heard.
16:11: Yes, everyone’s just going up higher and higher.
16:13: I’m like, Whoa, I can’t be, I’m just gonna sit here and observe you guys, and it’s great.
16:19: It’s it’s great.
16:20: Yeah, wow, it’s amazing.
16:22: Yeah, so all the wounds, you can undercompensate or you can overcompensate.
16:25: Can you give me another example of one of the other wounds.
16:27: So the one wind of silence, the wind of power, it’s a very common one, and then we can talk about the wind of war.
16:33: So the wind of power is where you either give your power away, so you don’t know what you want, you’re stuck.
16:40: It’s like the people that are like, oh, I don’t know.
16:42: The wind of power many times comes.
16:44: From very, like, maybe traditional families or like if you come with a family of doctors and you’re like, but I’m, I’m an artist, you know, like, the wind of powers you all you perhaps you became the doctor because that was the expectation, or you completely rebelled against it, and you were like, I’m gonna be the most opposite of it.
17:04: I laugh cause my family is all lawyers, and I’m in right.
17:08: There you go.
17:09: Yes.
17:10: So it’s like the black sheep of the family, you know, like, oh, you’re different.
17:13: Yeah, and that the win of identity also plays in that because it’s the expectation of who you need to be.
17:20: And that comes from a lot of things, not just like career wise, but it could be like, as a, as an eldest daughter, for example, like so much pressure on the oldest child.
17:29: It’s crazy, yeah.
17:30: Like my dad called me the other day and he’s Like, tell me about your sister.
17:34: And I’m like, why don’t you call my sister?
17:36: And he’s like, no, I’m calling the boss.
17:38: And I’m like, I’m not, I’m not the boss.
17:40: I’m my own person.
17:41: I want my.
17:41: Yeah, I like, I don’t know, right?
17:45: So I’m like, I’m working, dad, call my sister.
17:47: But he, his relationship with my sister is not the same that he has with me.
17:51: And so it’s like, I need to stand in my power.
17:55: Take my power back and be like, you go talk to your daughter, heal that relationship that’s not mine to fix.
18:01: Yeah, good for you.
18:02: Yeah, yeah, it took a long time we snap it’s snap.
18:05: So at Powerhouse women, one of the cute thing was like they would say like if the energy hits, you just go bad.
18:11: So I’m like, I don’t know if I want to start it, like give it a guess, like, yes, I like the snap, yes, yeah.
18:18: It’s so good.
18:19: Yeah, Theo of work, for example, that one, I have a lot of clients to deal with that one.
18:25: And myself too.
18:26: So that’s a very, very common one.
18:29: I’m like, can we raise your hand and, and that’s, it’s fascinating to see the overcompensation and the compensation and the undercompensation of the wound of worth, because the undercompensation is you’re underpaid.
18:39: You don’t raise your hand, you don’t ask for raises, you like, you don’t charge enough, you don’t, yeah.
18:43: Right.
18:44: I was there for a long time where I literally, I was, I would do payroll and see my peers make more money and.
18:52: not be annoyed.
18:55: You would be annoyed but you wouldn’t ask for it.
18:56: Yeah, yeah, so that’s the undercompensation.
19:00: The overcompensation of worth is when, and I have a couple of clients there, they’re millionaires, billionaires, but they still don’t feel enough.
19:07: So it’s the it’s the never enough and it’s I keep checking the boxes and I still don’t feel enough because the worthiness doesn’t come from the external factor that comes with that.
19:19: And so the wound is.
19:20: The overcompensation of it is by checking all the boxes, like, on paper, you are the best, the greatest of everything.
19:26: But when you ask them, it’s like, no, which is wild.
19:30: Yeah.
19:30: So in these examples, what is kind of the path or someone that someone can start to take to kind of heal these wounds and like be these wounds, and you can pick one or two or three of them if that’s easier, but I’m curious, like, what is the path in your perspective.
19:43: So, just like I shared my 6 year old, I’d love to go back.
19:47: Courts into those moments because I believe that all the versions of us that have dealt with the wounds still exist within us.
19:56: And so if we get to explore when was this taken away from me?
20:01: What moment, what version of me is dealing with this the most, because that’s a version that comes and raises their hand.
20:07: And so for me, my six year old would always come and be like, why are you not standing up?
20:12: Why are you not saying anything?
20:13: Why are you staying quiet?
20:15: Why are you not owning it?
20:17: And so allowing, giving yourself permission to have, first of all, awareness, like it exists, because I think without awareness then we just can keep chugging along.
20:28: So awareness number one, understand that there’s something, so maybe throughout all the things that we’ve talked about, people might be like, oh yeah, oh yeah, and that’s the awareness, and then give yourself permission to explore how old does this feel?
20:39: It’s one of my favorite questions to I love that one.
20:41: Yeah, I love.
20:43: How does this emotion feel?
20:45: And sometimes it could be way back when.
20:49: I did a session once where we went to the wound.
20:52: And yeah, that one, that one was a little wild because my client had the the wind of silence, very strong and fascinating.
21:01: So his mom was drowning while they were in the wound.
21:05: And so she couldn’t talk and the baby while she was in the womb, womb, OK.
21:10: So, yeah, the belly belly, yeah, so the mom was pregnant, yeah, but the, but she was drowning, but the mom was drowning, was at the beach drowning on vacation, and then the baby at that moment was like, I can’t talk because the mom couldn’t talk.
21:23: And so then like that led into all these patterns.
21:28: Wow, that’s a whole another, that’s a whole thing, but I believe that 100% that every single thought, feeling, everything goes right to that child that you’re having while you’re 100 hours.
21:37: I have like, that’s cool.
21:39: I have a very specific image of like me singing.
21:42: It was just like keep talking about this, like me singing as a little girl.
21:44: And my mom saying like stop Karena, stop singing.
21:47: And I don’t think she meant it as like, your singing is bad or your voice is bad, but that’s how I perceived it.
21:53: Yes.
21:53: And so I think at the time, maybe she was on the phone or something that she was like, didn’t need me to sing, but I interpreted that as like, Karena, your voice is ugly or sucks.
22:03: You should be silence, you should be quiet.
22:04: And I remember.
22:05: Look at the video, and I also go back to my inner child a lot.
22:07: So I think it’s just so helpful to go back to those moments and just like give that person or give that little me a little bit of love and reassurance and say, No, you are beautiful.
22:18: Your voice matters.
22:19: You can speak, you can sing, you can express yourself, whatever that is for you.
22:23: But it’s going back and redoing that from the back, from the past.
22:26: Yeah, to your point.
22:28: Yeah, I think it’s important.
22:29: And also the other thing that I like to remind myself.
22:32: and others is that intention doesn’t impact.
22:35: And so oftentimes because I have a lot of clients who are parents, and you know, once we do in our child we’re with them, they’re like, oh my God, what am I gonna like, how am I gonna mess up my kids?
22:47: That’s a whole thing.
22:48: I’m glad you brought this up because there’s parents that listen to this.
22:51: Yeah, and the answer is 100%.
22:53: You are going to traumatize your kids because intention doesn’t equal impact.
22:57: And to that story, I love that you shared it because The intention of your mom is perhaps she was on the phone or something, yeah, that was not her intention, but it’s the impact and the interpretation and the perception that the child took, and kids are so imaginative.
23:14: They make up shit all the time.
23:15: Can I curse?
23:16: Yeah, yes, and yes, they do, you know, like, you could be like, that’s not what I said.
23:21: Oh, that’s what I imagined.
23:22: Even as adults, we like reimagine our childhood and our parents are like that didn’t happen that way and we’re like, oh, it did, you know, it’s like the same thing.
23:30: Yeah, there’s a lot of times I’ll look back, my mom’s like, I could have sworn that’s what it was and she’s like, I know it wasn’t.
23:35: Yeah, so yeah.
23:38: Our brains just decide that certain things, however we perceive the situation, yeah, and there’s nothing our parents can do.
23:45: There’s nothing parents can do.
23:47: So what I do best.
23:48: Yes, what I tell parents is, look, you’re doing the best you can with what you have in this moment.
23:51: Yeah, and you are also human beings, so you could be the most healed you’ve ever been.
23:55: And there’s going to be a button that’s going to be pushed that that child came to push.
23:58: That’s right, the little mirrors, yeah, yeah, great.
24:04: I’ve always thought about it because we do the work for ourselves, so we can teach our kids and teach.
24:08: Give them the tools to work through it themselves, right?
24:10: So like, we can’t protect them from feeling certain things, but we can say, hey, I’ll teach you when they’re ready to learn, right?
24:17: And be like, this is the process.
24:18: I understand, whatever that looks like.
24:20: So us going through it is also going to be supportive for them.
24:23: Totally.
24:24: And from a scientific perspective, it’s been proven that when we heal, we heal forwards and backwards.
24:29: There’s like one of my favorite, the mice study.
24:31: But they studied generations of mice, and on one end, they traumatize them, just to make this the long story short, they traumatize the mice and they realized that 8 generations forward, after, didn’t get traumatized.
24:46: They just knew.
24:47: We still had the impact.
24:48: Yeah, yeah.
24:50: That’s a really good one.
24:51: Yeah, it’s one of my favorite ones.
24:52: And so, and in that same lens, when we heal, we heal 7 generations and 7 generations forward.
24:58: Backwards giving yourself that permission to to own the fact that you’re healing your own and at the same time it’s going forwards and going backwards.
25:08: It’s a good incentive.
25:09: Yeah, it’s like you’re a great incentive 7 years.
25:14: So we’re super fun.
25:15: You just have to get start looking inside awareness number one.
25:20: So what I wanted to pivot just a little bit, if that’s OK, because I know you’re also an artist and I saw particularly one of your Instagram videos you were talking about how art is never finished, like a teacher, I think told you.
25:33: And I would love to speak to that just as a fellow artist, and I know there’s people out there that, one, I think everyone’s creative, and I wonder if you agree, but I know a lot of people love to say like, I’m not creative, or, so maybe you can speak to that, and what you say to those type of people, and also, like, that if you, if you kind of tell that story or share a little more about, like, how art is never finished.
25:53: Cause I feel like that’s a great metaphor for just life in general.
25:55: Yes, and even your work, because, for example, the wounds of a culture, I started with 7, and they were principles.
26:04: And in my head, I thought, I’ll share them to see how the world accepts them or not, because art’s never finished.
26:11: Your body of work is never finished.
26:14: Whatever you do, your career, like, even whether you’re a doctor, there’s always something else to learn, always.
26:20: And So, yeah, I, that’s one of my favorite things to believe, to choose to believe is that my body of work is always a work in progress, just like my healing, just like my voice, just like owning my power.
26:31: It’s always going to be, there’s always one more thing to learn because perfection doesn’t exist.
26:36: And how boring would the world be if perfection existed, would just be like robots walking around.
26:41: Like everything would be black and white and perfect all the time.
26:44: Like, where’s the Pleasant Bell that movie Pleasantville where they were.
26:48: So yeah, annoying, so boring.
26:50: And so, and to to the everyone’s creative.
26:53: I agree 100%.
26:55: Everyone’s great.
26:55: I think I would invite people to look into their power to see where it was taken because I think creativity comes, it comes from your energy centers, chakra.
27:04: Yeah.
27:06: And so that’s many times to be power lies.
27:09: And so when was it taken away so that you chose to believe that creativity, whatever that means.
27:16: Because creativity could be whatever.
27:17: My grandma was in the I was gonna say I try to tell people like you could be cooking, you could be sewing, you could be even like, like organizing a specific way to me is creativity, you know, yeah, like all the organizers, 100%, that’s your thing.
27:30: Yeah.
27:30: What makes your heart sing, and I think also the world has created this idea that creativity needs to look a certain way, and it’s up to us to challenge that and say this is my way to be creative.
27:41: And our It’s never finished, so don’t tuck it away.
27:45: So is it fair to say that your full, your fullest expression isn’t finished?
27:49: I think so.
27:50: Yeah, because I think we’re the best we can be right now in this moment.
27:55: Yeah.
27:56: Tomorrow I might call you and be like, I changed my mind or whatever I said.
27:59: And that’s OK.
28:00: Let’s just say that like that’s OK, like change is OK.
28:03: I want to like loop in that a little bit more too because I’m like, I think sometimes we’re like, it’s supposed to look this way, it’s supposed to stay this way.
28:10: And it’s not even that, it’s like more like, no, you’re allowed to change.
28:14: Even when I was coaching people, like they’d be like, but I committed and I said yes to that.
28:19: I was like, but you feel differently about it now, so why can’t you go back and change it?
28:23: Like, yes, you made your commitment, I get it, but you’re new today, or maybe you’re new 2 years from now, 3 years from now, whatever that looks like for you.
28:31: And so it’s really The ability to be with the present moment.
28:36: And they say that the body regenerates itself completely every 7 years.
28:40: You know, plants die all the time and they reborn.
28:49: Yeah, we were talking about the I.
28:49: Oh, a little bit more about that because we’ve been, we love talking about, we, we really try to help encourage people.
28:55: to follow more the seasons than say like strict, you know, everyday, we had someone on talking about like maybe a smoothie in the dead of winter when you live in Michigan is not a great option for going with the seasons.
29:05: So yeah, speak how do you work with the seasons in your I started working with the seasons when I realized that as a cyclical being, so I’m a woman, so I cycle 4 times per month.
29:18: And I realized that this thing that the people called ADHD gets affected by my hormones.
29:24: And so my brain was a little funky every like so many weeks and then it was really great, and I was like, what is this?
29:30: and doctors didn’t know, of course they did it because women are not worth studying.
29:34: We’re just a little too expensive we’re too expensive to study because if if science would study women, they would have to study us 4 times.
29:43: Through all the cycles, depending on where I mean to drive a little more from like one of our friends.
29:48: She’s like we’re literally different every single day of the month.
29:50: Yeah.
29:51: So like if you really want to get a good research, we’re so excited every day researching it because we changed so much.
29:58: Yeah, yeah, as well, I had to get blood work and my doctor was like, you have to go on the first day of your period before 11 p.m. before 11 a.m. and I was like this is.
30:09: The most specific thing.
30:11: But yeah, it’s because they’re looking for a deficiency, yeah, yeah.
30:16: And so we are that wild.
30:18: And so when I couldn’t get any answers as to why I was feeling great during some times and not so great during others and it was like this like game of it, how is it gonna be today?
30:29: I went into that, yeah, like.
30:35: gonna have a good day?
30:36: How are the hormones going to react?
30:38: I don’t know.
30:38: And so I realized that women cycle like the earth.
30:43: And so I went into this like whole other deep rabbit hole of exploring and connecting my inner cycles with Mother Earth and how when I bleed, it’s like winter.
30:54: And and really honoring how the earth is a teacher for us and especially women.
31:01: Because she don’t care.
31:03: She’s not gonna grow any flowers when she’s wintering, you know, because she needs to rest, and you’re gonna wait if you want some flowers for spring, because she’s going to take her time.
31:11: And so, that also pissed me off because I was like, this whole time, I’ve been conditioned to operate against the same capacity, yeah, in every aspect of with men, yeah, when men are monocyclical, they rise and sleep with the sun.
31:27: Yeah.
31:28: You know, so their compass is the sun, our compass is the moon.
31:32: We’re just not the same.
31:33: And it got me kind of sad because many times I felt so inadequate to do things, but it was really because I was just in a different mode I was wintering.
31:44: I was in autumn, I was shedding, you know.
31:47: And so the seasons, I think they’re great.
31:50: I think nature is a great teacher for all of the things that we do and I, I, I take.
31:55: As one of my biggest mentors for business and for life and for cycles and to the point of we change all the time, the earth changes all the time.
32:04: And even with like, we feed the earth, you know, there’s like, looking at farmers, I love talking to farmers about like all the things cause they’re like very like wise.
32:12: They’re so tapped in because they’re literally working with the earth every day, all the time and how sometimes they have to plant certain seeds and then they have to wait certain seasons to plant different.
32:22: seeds because they feed the earth in a different way and the soil just becomes something different.
32:27: And so even like that regeneration, it’s like, and why do we want to stay the same?
32:33: Yeah, all the time, you know.
32:35: Yeah, as I was hearing you speak too, it just sounds like the fact that we’re different every day, the fact that we’re different, you know, it’s just, it’s giving even more permission to all of us who are listening that we have flexibility, fluidity, adaptability, like there’s no, like nothing.
32:49: That’s like just is, right?
32:51: It’s everything.
32:52: It’s the yes and it’s in the duality.
32:54: It’s in the in the dance, which is, I think so hard because most of our culture is so used to structure, black and white.
33:01: This is what it is.
33:02: This is right or wrong, yes or yes or no, right?
33:05: And what’s wild, especially for women, is like, we are literally biologically made to go against that.
33:12: Yeah.
33:13: We did not come onto this earth saying like, this is how it’s going to be.
33:16: Every single day.
33:18: This is what I can trust to show up for me today.
33:20: You know, I can lean on this expectation, I can expect this to happen because I think we find so much safety in that and control.
33:28: But what you just spoke to was just like even more permission, I think for women to like really listen and be like, you’re all of it.
33:36: Not one of it.
33:36: You’re all of it.
33:37: It’s so beautiful.
33:39: And it’s whatever you feel like today.
33:41: And that’s such a program too, like that you’re supposed to be.
33:43: Like a man, and that’s all we have even fasting, cold plunge, all these things we talk about on the podcast is like, it’s all been tested on men, looked at for men.
33:52: I mean, it’s just so sad that we’re so short changed.
33:56: And imagine, like, I’m we’re both advocates to really going deeper into finding your fullest expression and letting yourself rest and doing all these things because at the end of the day, you actually can have more capacity when you get to this.
34:09: And it’s, that’s exactly what I know now after Listening what you’re teaching, which is if you want to actually reach your fullest capacity and get out of this kind of being silenced and suppressed, is like taking back your power and and rest.
34:21: Like that’s part of it.
34:22: That is part of taking your power back.
34:24: Like, actually, not today.
34:25: I don’t need this today.
34:26: Yeah, I’m good.
34:27: Yeah.
34:28: And giving yourself permission to be, yeah, because we can.
34:33: So why did we spend so long like thinking we have to push, push, push, push.
34:38: You, it’s also hard.
34:39: I mean, even energetically, you know, like there is a part of our world that’s disconnected, you know, I guess you can get caught into like, I’m just gonna jump on the train and we’re just going to go, right?
34:50: And we’re over here saying, no, you should walk and like figure out how you feel, which is just not how the whole world is running, right?
34:58: There is this system, which I love that you call it a system.
35:01: Yeah, that’s been like implemented and it’s seen in different ways and It’s really keeping us in this Gaita culture.
35:08: And I’m curious if your business, and because I’m hearing what you were just saying, what Karina was just saying about, like, that’s not our culture, I think about 2020 and how the world stopped, and I feel like that was a big shift, almost like a wake up call.
35:21: I’m curious if you saw like an increase of more people.
35:24: Be like, oh damn, like I’m not OK, you know, because they finally had that moment.
35:29: I mean, when in the world has the world just shut down fully, where you have a moment to be like, oh my God, like I remember my husband and I were just walking every day and like there was nothing else to do.
35:38: You’re just like, wow, this is amazing, like, there’s no expectations and Yeah, can you speak to that a little bit?
35:44: I’m totally, yeah, I think 2020 was a catalyst for a lot of inner exploration for a lot of people.
35:52: For some that were overcompensating.
35:56: You know, proving and checking the list and showing the success, then the world was like, we, we’re just gonna put the brakes on it, and there’s nothing else to prove.
36:06: And so their identity was challenged in such ways that it was completely like, pulled from them, that makes sense, you know, and so that’s why I think a lot of depression and sadness and loneliness because the overcompensation was externally completely.
36:19: It was like a distraction, yes.
36:21: And so then the world shut down and you were people were forced to look inwards.
36:24: And especially the people that were very outward, like your job was going into the office and you were seeing people all the time and the distractions.
36:35: And so then there was no other option but to look inward.
36:39: And it’s really sad.
36:39: Like I think now that was a pause that allowed for a lot of shifts to happen and sadly we lost a lot of people.
36:47: And I think in a in a good way, also a lot of people got to discover different things like creativity was Something that just flooded because people gave themselves permission to be.
36:57: I feel like now, 4 years later, we’re all reflecting and realizing, oh, that was a moment that we had, like, maybe I don’t want to push anymore.
37:05: Maybe I don’t wanna, I don’t, and I, and I know the cost of living and all these other things have influenced this kind of midpoint we’ve gotten to where I’m sure you’re seeing it as well, like, $17 an hour, you can’t survive on it.
37:17: Like it’s not enough.
37:18: Even $20 an hour is not enough.
37:20: So it’s like, is it even worth it anymore?
37:22: to like push yourself so hard and work these jobs and like you can’t even survive off of it.
37:27: So I, I see a lot of people questioning and wanting to shift this dynamic and, and give a voice to exactly what you’re speaking to.
37:34: It opened a lot of our eyes.
37:36: Yeah, because we were, I think the program was such an autopilot.
37:40: I don’t know if you’ve seen the short of like the guy that like goes to sleep, wakes up in the morning, start like, Same cup of coffee, and then, you know, it’s like, yeah, repeat, repeat, you know.
37:50: Yeah, and 2020 happened and it was just like massive just like, yeah, it’s like, oh, I’m tired actually our nervous system got to feed got to be, yeah, I think what you guys are saying, I think it’s just, it’s the impact on what happens.
38:07: And you just be.
38:09: And I think yes, 2020 forced all of us to do that.
38:12: It was kind of like, sorry guys, the world’s saying no, you got nothing else but to be.
38:16: But I think in to take it back to the listeners a little bit more is like, you guys can create being in your day to day.
38:22: You can make create being right now.
38:24: And we forget that is that easy.
38:27: And it’s, I know it’s a constant reminder.
38:29: I’m not perfect either when it comes to this, but it’s a constant like when I do, and like when I do allow myself to be, oh my God, it is the most beautiful medicine to my body, my creativity, my business, my relationships, everything.
38:42: It’s just like I’m like, oh, I’m here.
38:44: Versus when I’m in this like chaotic mind, it just feels chaotic in a chaotic.
38:49: There’s no sense, no sense of feeling.
38:53: And so that was so beautiful.
38:55: And now I want to turn it to you and ask you a question about just like you personally.
39:01: You know, you already mentioned that we’re changing every single day and that we’re evolving, and I’m so curious, where in your life can you be more fully expressed?
39:12: You know, I think what’s coming up right now, cause I thought about that question, what’s coming up is a while back, I was speaking and someone introduced me, it was a panel, and so they introduced the rest of the people and then when they got to me, it was someone I knew.
39:25: So the moderator, I knew that person.
39:27: And they were like, and here comes Pam.
39:29: She does a lot of things.
39:30: So here she comes.
39:31: And I was like, I don’t even deserve you read my bio.
39:34: What?
39:35: And so that kind of like took me to think a lot about how I show up and being creative and being this and being that, and so how do I be more like the fully expressed version of me is by honoring the various facets of me, even when people can’t introduce me.
39:53: Yes.
39:55: That’s amazing.
39:56: We need to come up with another, yeah, this is maybe better.
40:00: This feels like too dino or something you can hear it.
40:04: They’re like a bird.
40:04: Yeah.
40:05: If you’re just listening and you can’t watch, we’re we’re just like folding our fingers over our hands and we look ridiculous, so.
40:12: That could be a short, that could be a short.
40:14: So I think is finally accepting the fact that I do a lot and I might be too much for some and that’s OK.
40:22: As a fellow overdoer, like I or if all the things, all the things is better, yeah, I can fully relate because that’s a manifesting generator too.
40:31: It’s just you’re following your impulses, but we don’t live in a culture or society that invites that in.
40:36: And starting to, but I think as you and others like us own that, it’s like, oh, you can be more than one thing and it’s OK.
40:43: And you can also just be one thing, and that’s cool too.
40:46: Yeah, it’s like whatever rocks your boat in the moment, because tomorrow I might be like, I just want to job.
40:51: Like that’s what I do do all the things.
40:53: Thank you.
40:54: I’m.
40:54: Yes, I mean that’s something at that moment I couldn’t own it, but now I mean that’s really a gift because I, I am sure you receive compliments all the time because you’re clearly very talented in many areas.
41:06: That is a gift and something to be like admired and admonished instead of like, oh she does all this stuff.
41:12: It’s like, no, she does all this stuff.
41:14: It’s crazy, like she’s so good.
41:15: It comes in handy because I know a lot of very random facts about things.
41:18: And so I think I’m a good conversationalist because I’m always like, by the way, did you know that, you know, random fact.
41:25: Yeah, how do you know then you’re you’re obviously a seeker of knowledge and you’re curious and we need curious people because they’re the change makers and the leaders because they’re willing to look beyond the structures and the norms.
41:36: I’m a Scorpio, so I go, she’s an astrologist Sedge rising.
41:40: So there’s always that, oh yeah, looking for the truth, let’s play and have fun.
41:48: That’s awesome.
41:49: Yeah, totally sad.
41:51: That’s why you’re so joyful as a sad rising, that makes a lot of sense.
41:54: People tell me that all the time and I’m like, yeah, but I’m like a scorpion’s son, like, are you, yeah.
42:01: Are you right now?
42:01: Yeah, yeah.
42:01: You want in the inner circle, you better prove yourself.
42:05: You could be on the outside, you can listen, you can hang out, but you ain’t go deep.
42:10: Yeah, exactly.
42:11: That’s awesome.
42:12: Let’s go.
42:13: I love that.
42:14: I love me a Scorpio.
42:15: So good.
42:16: I’m, I’m dating a lot of Scorpio.
42:18: I actually we’re aged Scorpio, yeah, Scorpio and Scorpio, the mystery of the mysticness.
42:28: I love depth, you know, we both deaf so much and vulnerability, so I definitely attracted someone with a lot of depth and a lot of vulnerability.
42:35: It’s such a good.
42:35: Yeah, because like my husband has Scorpio too, and it really helps you, it makes you question, you just go deeper into it so much.
42:42: It’s amazing when you could do it yourself, you have it in you, but like to have someone else to help, like to have anyone, you and someone else’s life to be that one that’s like, well, what about this?
42:51: What about this?
42:52: Well let’s look at this.
42:53: You’re like, we all need those people.
42:54: We all need those people.
42:56: We absolutely need this.
42:57: And I actually invite those people.
42:59: I’m like, come into my life.
43:00: What do you see.
43:00: I don’t see.
43:01: Yeah.
43:02: Ask me questions.
43:03: Where can I go deeper?
43:03: Where can I go there?
43:04: Like, I’m here for that.
43:05: My parents and Aries son, and that’s an interesting match.
43:10: Always.
43:11: I always get, but he’s a March Aries.
43:14: I’ve updated lots of April Aries like the whole chart.
43:17: I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can’t just take the I’m sure there’s a lot of compatibility in other places.
43:21: Very interesting.
43:22: It’s very contrasting.
43:23: , but he’s always like, do we need to talk about that today?
43:28: And I’m like, yes, well, yeah, cause he’s either a Mercury in Aries or most likely or a Mercury in Taurus, so he, he’s more like either ready to just speak it, speak the truth and walk away, or if he’s a tourist, it’s like, Does this feel safe to the tourist like he’s a projector and so, you know, oh yeah, you said that.
43:48: I know.
43:49: So I’m always like, I will tell you that I love you deep into this subject tomorrow must we I’m like my I have a lot of.
43:58: like being very visionary and there’s a lot more than just the projector type that we know, but when it comes to the kind of energy that you guys have, like we’re just like, let me put a bubble.
44:06: I’m like over here like, where are my assistants call me when it’s time.
44:11: Yeah, tell me when I need to show up.
44:13: Yeah, it’s funny when we were talking about the rebrand and everything.
44:15: I’m like, I’ll do this.
44:16: I could do the website, I could do this.
44:17: She’s like, OK, if you feel you have this and I’m always checking in on her.
44:21: I’m like, do you feel like you have the capacity right now?
44:23: She’s like, oh yeah.
44:24: I was like, all right, I’m just checking in on me.
44:27: Yeah, that’s one thing I love like it took me a while to understand is that I, we work really fast.
44:34: We do, and I same, and I’m, I relate so much to your story cause I feel I was definitely like the quiet one in my family.
44:40: I was the artist, like, and it was the same.
44:42: I had all these interests and my mom’s like, be a lawyer, you should be a lawyer.
44:45: I’m like, oh, like that sounds horrific.
44:48: Yeah, cold and dark one way like people and I don’t put the justice system’s broken.
44:53: I was like, it’s hitting all the wrong button.
44:55: Like I’m my grandpa was a lawyer.
44:56: I’d be like crying in the courthouse, you know, I’d be like, he’s innocent too restrictive, yes, it’s way too much love, right?
45:05: Just trying to like tell the judge like you’re being biased right now.
45:07: I see it all over you.
45:08: I don’t appreciate it, you know, it would not be well.
45:12: So yeah, I love like, I always love when I meet other like manifesting genders or anyone that’s just like an artist cause it’s, I never was around that a lot as a kid, as I’m sure you probably weren’t either.
45:22: Dad with a mystical dad.
45:24: And so that was that’s OK that’s what you’s like a witch.
45:31: But imagine for his dad, the wounds were deep and they still are.
45:35: He’s an alcoholic.
45:36: And so that’s the other part of my story that I got to see and witness from an outside point in him being othered because, yeah, because he said an attorney and so my grandpa was.
45:49: Lawyer and he was all about like, yeah, grandma was super Catholic, like good woman.
45:57: And so then my dad, he’s a musician by ear.
46:00: So when he was 3, he went to he went to accompany his older siblings to a piano class.
46:05: And when they got home, he started playing without like by just what he heard by ear.
46:10: And so he has that like very creative.
46:13: He became a musician, then he, he taught me Reiki when I was 11.
46:16: And all the things, but it was this like, I I don’t want to be othered.
46:21: Like he was his whole life.
46:23: And so his generation was hard though.
46:26: It wasn’t as welcome.
46:27: Even like my mom, like I was 15, I mean I was like anywhere between 12 and 15 my mom started going through a healing journey.
46:33: She was like a Reiki master.
46:34: She was talking to spirits.
46:35: She was doing all this and me as a little girl was like, Mom, you’re crazy.
46:39: And she came to it later in life, but I’m sure your dad, you know, I don’t know, just that.
46:43: Generation wasn’t as welcoming as it.
46:45: Oh yeah, at least this generation is.
46:47: There’s so much curiosity and openness and people are searching for like, what’s different?
46:52: I want to know what’s different.
46:53: Different is cool.
46:54: You know, it’s even like our uniqueness and authenticity is like, I want to get to know that.
46:58: There’s a lot more openness.
47:00: So your dad probably, yeah.
47:01: Totally.
47:01: And that’s one of the things that he says is that his generation came to open that.
47:06: And my dad says the same thing because he was a photographer, but that’s what he wanted to do, and he became a lawyer and And he also collected crystals, and I remember in high school he’d give me crystals and be like, I was dating someone and his mom was very religious.
47:17: He was like, don’t tell anyone, they’ll think you’re a witch, you know, and like, so I’m curious though, does your, I know we’re probably almost have to wrap up.
47:23: I, I just have one last question.
47:25: Do you feel like the work you’ve done now, do you see it like how it’s affected your father in that sense?
47:30: Like does he express himself more in that arena?
47:33: He and I think that’s why he has like, I’m his eldest daughter, and so he Always tells me that you came to clear a lot of things and I resisted it for a long time.
47:43: I’m like, I don’t want to be like my dad’s incredible he recognized that in you.
47:47: We had to do through a lot of like healing in our relationship because he, his humanity is, he’s an absent father.
47:52: He left when I was 11.
47:54: He’s an alcoholic.
47:55: So there’s a lot happening.
47:56: There’s a lot there and we had to come to terms from at a soul level that I was here to clear a lot of the shit that he fucked.
48:06: Like in his human self.
48:07: And so I had to come to also accept that, so I could be my fullest self because me restricting my own mysticness and magic was not just rejecting him, which and I in a way I thought it was, but it was rejecting myself.
48:21: And so accepting that was like, oh, I can feel like, well, why, why I can hear like little girl, like, why am I the one that has to go through all the like, yeah.
48:28: I like carrying the fucking backpack.
48:30: I have to be the one you know, I can just hear that because you can, that’s fine.
48:40: Well, and we get to, you know, I think it’s freedom for ourselves, like what you were saying, right?
48:44: Like it was freedom that you found by working through that and like into your fullest expression.
48:49: It was the path to leaning in and a lot of people.
48:51: find a lot of resistance, but you didn’t found that freedom.
48:54: So, and it came from my dad telling me you chose to be here, and he chose me as your father.
48:58: So go for it.
48:59: Yeah, that was like, are you sure soul?
49:02: Why?
49:03: Well, I think a lot of us sometimes are like, really?
49:06: Do we just double tap on that?
49:07: Yeah, just, just tell me more.
49:10: switch a little bit.
49:11: Did you push other buttons that you weren’t supposed to?
49:13: Yeah, exactly.
49:15: Did you push the wrong?
49:16: , well, this podcast has been such a pleasure.
49:22: Yeah, I was like, please come back.
49:23: I love, you know, I I have a lot of friends that have ADHD.
49:26: I’m like, I can talk to you for hours, you know, because there’s just things that you can go off of.
49:30: Yeah, it’s not just that it’s your creativity, your expression, your knowledge, your value, how much you’ve been doing this work.
49:35: You’ve been podcasting since 2016, I think you said.
49:38: So like.
49:39: Yeah.
49:39: It was such a pleasure to have you on here.
49:41: I’m so glad that we’ve met and thanks for like raising your hand to be on this, on this podcast, sending my power.
49:49: I see you.
49:49: You can see when someone’s really done the work and you have done the work, you know, and you exude that light and that’s what everyone can strive to be to find and embody it in their own way.
49:59: Yeah, it is worth it.
50:01: It really is.
50:01: Sometimes people are like, I’m scared and I’m like, well, do it scared.
50:07: Yeah.
50:07: Other side.
50:07: So tell us or tell the audience where they can find you.
50:10: Where’s the best places to find you the socials.
50:13: I have a love hate relationship.
50:15: I’m healing with social media.
50:17: So I, I feel like so many of us are.
50:20: It’s the running theme of all on here.
50:23: Like we want to show up more in social, but we also, yeah, I mean I think like my is like show up and be playful and then my Scor is like nobody needs to know.
50:32: it to yourself.
50:33: Like you can like, it’s hard.
50:35: The more that you can to Mother Earth is like the last thing I want to do is on social media.
50:40: So it’s like we have these constant parts of us to be like, but I want to go this way and we’re like, we got to go in now.
50:45: And then the world is like, but you need more followers if you want work.
50:47: And I’m like, I know, we feel you.
50:49: So at podcast on all the socials.com, super easy.
50:55: Amazing.
50:56: And all of it will be in the show notes and on our website.
50:58: Thank you for having me.
50:59: This is fun.
51:00: Yeah, thank you so much.
51:01: But like a core talk, she’s my talk.
51:01: Yeah.
51:01: Love it.
51:07: So good.
51:08: Thank you so much for tuning in.
51:09: We really appreciate you being here.
51:12: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
51:17: Also, we would love to hear from you.
51:19: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
51:26: We are here to support you and encourage you.
51:29: See you on the next one.