#88: Healing After Divorce & Awakening Through Pain with Dave Martinell

0:02: Welcome to the Fully Expressed podcast.
0:04: We’re your host Karenna and Samantha.
0:06: This show is your permission slip to stop holding back.
0:10: Here we talk about what it really means to live unapologetically you in your relationships, your business, and your everyday life.
0:17: We believe the most magnetic version of you is rooted in self-expression, honesty, vulnerability, and showing up fully as you are.
0:24: When you own that, you naturally attract the people, the opportunities, and the life that is meant for you.
0:30: Today’s episode is for anyone that is navigating divorce, specifically men or partners with children.
0:36: What we really loved about today’s episode is that Dave Martinell really talks about his perspective of going into a divorce, how his divorce was a spiritual awakening.
0:45: And honestly, probably our favorite part was how his divorce has really impacted his kids and how he has invited him into become a much more emotionally mature dad.
0:53: Dave Martinell is a men’s coach who specializes in breakups, divorce recovery, and emotional healing.
0:59: After years as an operations director in the kitchen and bath industry, his own journey through divorce and personal transformation led him to this work, helping men break toxic patterns, heal emotional wounds, and create deeper, more meaningful relationships.
1:13: Through his coaching and.
1:14: Podcast, Dave supports men in developing emotional intelligence, resolving internal triggers, and navigating the complexities of love and connection.
1:21: Alongside his wife, he also leads live workshops for couples focused on conflict resolution, emotional safety, and lasting intimacy.
1:29: His mission is to shift how men approach healing with self-awareness, integrity, and heart.
1:34: In this episode, you’re going to hear Samantha and I get a little emotional just because it’s really beautiful to see a man be able to see his kids the way that he did.
1:42: And we’re so excited for you to dive in because there’s so many lessons for anyone in a relationship, but very specifically if you’re navigating the divorce season.
1:50: And if you know anyone who’s going through this, who needs some help, who needs a little guidance, this episode is absolutely for them too.
1:56: We would love if you would share it.
1:58: Enjoy this episode.
1:59: Welcome.
2:00: Thank you.
2:01: Thanks for having me.
2:02: Thank you so much for being here.
2:03: I am so excited to have you here because one, I think we we met online and then you had sent your wife Siobhan to come to one of our community events and we met her and she was amazing and so sweet and I just love that she came and then we started to watch like your Instagram and what you were talking and I was like, We should invite him onto the podcast, just to get to know you because we love to sprinkle in masculine energy and we’re just so fucking grateful for men that are doing the work and that are also showing other men and inviting men into the work as well.
2:36: So thank you so much for being here today.
2:38: I’m so excited.
2:39: Thanks for having me.
2:40: I think you guys are awesome.
2:42: I love what you’re doing.
2:43: Same the feelings are mutual, the respect of people doing this work, so yeah.
2:49: So let’s like dive right in.
2:53: we wanted to start, maybe you can give us a little background into yourself, your work, how you got into it, and then we can dive in maybe to kind of the whole divorce.
3:04: The divorce world we could call it.
3:07: Yeah, for sure.
3:07: So, I’m pretty average blue collar guy, I would say growing up and, I was a huge drinker IP IPA guy if you get the picture and and then I went into the corporate world, started to excel in my career.
3:23: I was a senior director for a kitchen and bath company, so like hands on, but then ended up in the corporate world and.
3:29: Ended up never dropping into my body, never really doing any type of therapy work.
3:35: I was religious when I was younger, so I was a Christian.
3:38: I was actually a pastor for a little bit when I was younger.
3:41: Yeah, and so I had like a religious background, but, never, you know, spiritual, like never dropping into the body, and never really dealing with my anxiety or my childhood trauma.
3:53: So in my late 20s, I just drank it away and ended up having a lot of anxiety, which, led to kind of odd decisions like, you know, I had two daughters and was married and I had a house like kind of like your textbook.
4:10: , picket fence life, I guess, and, was drinking all the time, like numbing the feelings and just burn out and so that led to relationship problems and a lot of stuff that from my childhood just replaying in the marriage that I had and yeah, I ended up breaking it down and leading to a divorce and So that’s pretty much the story of that, you know.
4:39: I mean like a part of like maybe even like pre-divorce, I think it’s such an important topic to talk about like.
4:46: the spirituality part.
4:48: you know, you being spiritual, you being a pastor and realizing that, wow, I haven’t really done any work.
4:54: I haven’t really like been with my past.
4:57: Like what was that realization moment for you where you’re like, wait, there’s something here I need to go look into because I clearly haven’t been with this thing and I’m drinking a lot or in some way.
5:09: Yeah, was it the divorce that triggered it or did you come to this realization before?
5:13: No, it was a divorce that triggered it.
5:15: So yeah, I kind of had some awareness that my childhood was affecting my patterns and my anxiety that I had, but it was definitely the divorce and just being so broken.
5:30: So I went like, When the divorce happened and I had my daughters half the time, but half the time that I didn’t and I was alone, I was forced into some solitude and figuring things out and so in that time I went to therapy, I started doing therapy and started doing some inner work and kind of understanding and it actually wasn’t until I got in the relationship with Siobhan that I ended up having to face it.
5:57: Like that was actually what really cracked it even more.
6:01: It was like, so it’s not like one scenario I would say, or one rock bottom.
6:05: It was kind of like an awareness that was building.
6:10: And then she cracked it open.
6:11: And how like what did she, she triggered me so bad.
6:13: Oh my gosh.
6:13: So she is a,, you know, gosh, she is, was single most of her 20s, you know, pretty much she was single the whole time traveling has been to like over 40 countries.
6:33: And almost had the exact opposite life I had, which and, and I think that’s what drew us to each other, you know, opposites attract.
6:41: I had a, had a family, I had houses, I owned a home, I was more stable.
6:46: I never left my, you know, I lived in like a 10 mile radius.
6:49: I had like a stable life, I would say, where she had.
6:53: A very adventurous life and we just opposites attracted so when we met each other, we just triggered each other like at first it was really attractive.
7:01: At first it was like, oh, this is, you know, amazing, this is sexy, this is, but then after 3 months in, you start to like hear stories and then you’re like, well, I would want to travel there or I would want to do that and then you realize what you didn’t have and.
7:17: Our past just collided and, you know, when you fall in love, you kind of have to accept people’s past and her accepting my past and me accepting hers was the opposite.
7:28: So I just had to really gain the perspective I didn’t have and that just, it triggered me so bad and sent me into like I mean we did break up for a month, I would say because we couldn’t accept each other.
7:41: We’re like this is just too hard, but we knew there was power if we could figure it out, so we got help and when we got help, we took a really extensive course on emotional awareness and shadow work really was like all based on shadow work and it was a 9 month course cost a ton of money and I took it and started to show up a little bit differently in the relationship and then I was like, if we’re gonna be together, you gotta take it too, cause then she started, it started to highlight some of her areas where she had to face her triggers.
8:13: So, yeah, through that kind of dynamic of just colliding so much, we ended up having to do a lot of inner work.
8:22: So I’m here, I want to peel back the layer a little bit.
8:24: So like when you got triggered, like I would love like a real life example of a moment because I feel like you can feel the colliding, but did it look like fighting and yelling at each other?
8:33: Like did it look like she talked about her stories and then you want to shut down?
8:37: Like, what was that process look like where she would talk to you about her, her travels and this life that she built and you were like, did you get reactive?
8:45: Did you shut down?
8:46: Did you want to pull away?
8:47: Like what was your, response to when you get activated.
8:58: Yeah, it was, you know, it was, it was the whole spectrum depending on the trigger, you know, how I would respond would basically be with whatever pattern I had developed from childhood and so You know, if it was, if it had to do with a guy that was in her story, I would react one way and I would usually in that scenario, I would freeze.
9:15: Like my reaction would be freeze, like, oh my gosh, how, how can I tell it like I had only, you know, been, I got married at 20 I to a girl that I did in high school.
9:25: So like, I’d only been with one person.
9:28: And so she had dated a little bit more than me, not like crazy.
9:32: she’s actually really like reserved, but still the stories would trigger me, you know, especially in her travels.
9:38: But if it was me getting jealous of like somewhere she had been, I would be worried like, OK, if I settle down with you, I’m not going to be able to go there.
9:48: So it was more of a jealousy, and then that would come out kind of lashing out or pushing her away because I, I almost subconsciously wanted to push her away so that I could get The thing that I, I kind of wanted.
10:00: so I had to address all these subconscious beliefs in order to prioritize them.
10:05: Because deep down I wanted love.
10:07: Like I, I truly, you know, haven’t gotten married young, like I, I clearly wanted a long lasting relationship and a family, but I also had these Little child, desires like of travel or becoming a pro skateboarder still or snowboarder like I had all these weird subconscious desires that were coming out to play when things would get triggered.
10:31: Wow.
10:32: No, no, it’s it’s beautiful because you’re talking so much about how our partners are mirror to one another, but they’re just mirroring to us what we want or need or desire, right?
10:41: Like I think there’s this constant like sometimes people, my, my partner said this before, he’s like jealousy is not necessarily being jealous of someone else, but it’s the fear of I’ll never receive that.
10:52: And when he said that to me, I’m like, oh my God.
10:56: You’re right.
10:56: Like at this part of me is playing a part that I’m so scared that I will never get to have the kind of fun that you had, or like I’ll never get to do the thing that you get to do and like there’s this part of me that believes that and so it sounds like in your situation like it was reflecting back that like you had this like deep part of you that was like I wanted to be the pro skateboarder.
11:15: I wanted to do the traveling like it.
11:18: I had to do this again.
11:19: I’d probably go back and do those things.
11:22: And so it’s coming out in this like not maybe aggressive but triggering, freezing, pausing nervous system experiences, but it was just your parts of you within you they were like.
11:33: But I wanted that too.
11:36: I didn’t get that.
11:37: To answer your question before because I didn’t clearly answer it to of like how did I respond mostly, I would say it was probably in almost like an attacking her in some way, like, not like, you know, you think of partnership as like supporting one another and it was like tearing her down, like being condescending of the traveling or like, you know, just not supportive or loving or accepting of her and so.
12:02: , you know, you imagine that didn’t go well.
12:06: She’s like, wait a second.
12:07: I’m sharing this adventure I went on and you’re like tearing me down, yeah, jealousy, you know, jealousy is so powerful in the wrong way.
12:17: It’s so interesting too because there’s probably people who look at you.
12:21: Not knowing maybe what was going on internally, but see like, wow, you, you were, I mean, there’s a lot of women who want a partner that wants to commit to them at an early age and have a family and all these things.
12:30: So it’s interesting to hear like you saying you were jealous of the freedom and the adventure and all this stuff and playing at the layers of You know, she may not ever want to go there again, or if she wants to go there again, it won’t be the same cause she’s already been there and all these things.
12:45: Like that’s really interesting that that dynamic was playing out.
12:49: What was her, what was her trigger of you?
12:52: You think it was your reaction that she was then triggered by, or do you think it was?
12:56: More.
12:57: No, there was more.
12:58: She had hers, yeah, cause like exactly that, you know, not get, so we just recently got married and but she, we, I met her at 32 and so she hadn’t been able to settle down yet.
13:10: So I don’t want to speak for her too much, but I know she puts it out there on our podcast all the time.
13:15: but like, even, you know, she loves my daughters.
13:17: I have two daughters and they’re 10 and 12 now, but, not getting to hold them as babies, you know, or like when I show her a video of like them walking at 2 or, or, you know, something they did when they were 5 years old, like that’s really hard.
13:31: Like, OK, I’ve fallen in love with these kids, but I don’t, I’ll never get to receive this.
13:36: So, yeah, she had her triggers as well.
13:38: And, with us not showing up well in that dynamic, it was just like a, a toxic relationship.
13:46: And like, you know, kudos to us for acknowledging it and be like, I think around 6 months in, we’re like, if we can’t show up better for ourselves, it’s over.
13:56: Like this isn’t gonna last.
13:57: So how did you guys do that?
13:59: Like, I’m so curious, how did you guys get on board?
14:00: It sounds like you realized that you were getting triggered.
14:03: There’s also, I also want to reflect back what you said that you said earlier right before you got divorced.
14:07: You also like raised your hand for therapy.
14:10: So it seems like you have this like inner compass within you that’s like we need therapy or we need help, or I should invest in this course, which is like such a power to you because I think a lot of men in general, even just humans, I think a lot of men are like, I can figure this out on my own.
14:26: Like, I don’t need anyone to help me like this is a me thing.
14:29: And so I just want to reflect that back to you, but then also like, what was the thing that helped you like lead in that way and honor your truth is like I need to work on this and even if it gets to a place of us not getting better, then it’s done.
14:42: Like what did that process look like and how did you invite her into it?
14:46: And like continue together, right?
14:47: Because like now you guys are married and it’s great, but I just want to know what that was like.
14:51: Yeah, for sure, the the So I didn’t always have that tool of like the awareness to go get help.
14:58: I would actually say I was, I was the guy that was like, I’m gonna figure this out or I’m gonna drink it away and have fun and kind of just bury it, but, the divorce brought that on.
15:09: So it was a it was like kind of a key moment there where realizing when I was dating her and I got past a certain point where I was like kind of all in emotionally, I realized that some of the same patterns that were coming up were not new to me.
15:28: Like these are patterns that were previously in in a previous relationship of mine too.
15:32: So, once I acknowledged that I was like, OK, it’s me.
15:37: Like there, there are things that I have to fix here.
15:39: And then, but it was hard for me.
15:41: Like I did not want to go get help.
15:43: I had done the I had done therapy, but I had done therapy in a way where it was like.
15:48: Let’s talk about your childhood and you know, I, I love therapy.
15:52: I’ll advocate for therapy all day, but just talk therapy to me isn’t enough.
15:56: Like you need other I needed other modalities.
15:59: I don’t want to speak for anyone else.
16:01: so when I went to take this course, it was because of a friend who had, gone through this course and changed his life like night and day.
16:10: I, I just watched him.
16:11: He went through a divorce and then he took the course and he actually ended up going back and they’re happily married now, but they went back to a new marriage after taking this course and I was like, OK, I gotta, I gotta see what’s up.
16:24: So I called him and I was like, hey, what’s the deal with this?
16:27: And then.
16:29: When I went, it broke, it just broke everything.
16:31: Like I’m that course changed my life forever.
16:34: And then on top of that, then that’s just, I wouldn’t say it’s the course that necessarily did it, but it was the getting into dropping into the body, like dropping back into the body and learning how to feel and get in touch with my emotions.
16:47: That was the first time that I’d ever really done that.
16:50: So in therapy, I’d done it like a little bit.
16:53: I’d touched certain things from my childhood, but This course, like 9 months of dropping in, you know, it just is a different game.
17:00: The thing I think too, as someone who also did a lot of talk therapy for many years, I think there is a time and a place, but the problem is it only can give you as much as you’re willing to one, see yourself and to be honest with yourself.
17:14: And I think when you go into somatics and body work, you can’t lie to the body.
17:18: The body will express the truth versus our mind.
17:22: loves to tell stories and make stories and make excuses.
17:25: So it’s like there is a place, but then at some point you have to take it inwards into the body, because otherwise you’re not going to get that that deeper expression that’s like trapped the real trauma that’s like trapped at the cellular level.
17:38: Would you agree?
17:38: like does that make, yeah, you have like learning how to feel like Siv will say.
17:44: , when she went and took the course, she’s like, I didn’t know feelings were called feelings because you feel them until she was 33 years old.
17:53: Like that’s we weren’t, I just wasn’t taught this in school or understanding this concept of like you actually feel them in the body.
18:00: Like, so you can feel jealousy.
18:01: It feels a little different than, you know, insecurity.
18:06: It’s just like they feel a little bit different once you draw awareness to like where you feel it and how it feels inside you.
18:13: And I think that art in that too, it’s like it feels different to everyone because like as someone like, you know, the greatest practitioner or facilitator is gonna have you identify what it feels like for you.
18:24: So then you can create this awareness that’s like, oh, that feels like this in my body versus like this in a different body, which is also, you know, I think there’s a language of your body.
18:36: We talk about this so much on the podcast because tapping into your body’s language is the wisdom, but The way that my body speaks is different than the way your body speaks and your body speaks.
18:45: And so it’s so difficult for people to be like, well, what does it feel like in your body?
18:50: Like, you know, they want something to refer to you, but the work is actually you learning how to do it yourself.
18:55: Absolutely, yeah, and once you go inward and start to learn it, then it’s like, OK, now that’s your mission for life figuring yourself out, right?
19:02: You’re never done because it’s like.
19:04: I don’t always know how I feel in a given moment, but I’m always awareness to master that more.
19:31: Like I hope when I’m 90, I’m like master of myself and my emotions, but yeah, I think I just want to be a star shine down on you guys.
19:34: Take a little break for for one round or maybe a dolphin.
19:37: I don’t know.
19:38: They feel too.
19:39: That’s true.
19:40: Yep, I’ll stick to the star.
19:43: Just kidding.
19:44: So I’m curious, you know, because I think divorce obviously is very prevalent and, and I don’t think it has to be a bad thing.
19:51: Like also we grow apart and I think that’s sticks to like religious dogma and all this stuff of like, you should stay married and stick it out.
19:59: So one, I know maybe your divorce might not have been your choice, but what did that feel like if it was If it wasn’t.
20:06: And then how did you know like with Siobhan that it was going to be different, that it was worth committing again a second time?
20:12: Oh yeah, that was one of my biggest fears.
20:15: It was such a hard process for me.
20:17: It brought so much anxiety on my body trying to learn like if I should commit or getting into a serious relationship again.
20:23: Super scary for me, especially with my daughters and then them starting to like fall in love with her and like, OK, dad’s got a girlfriend.
20:30: She’s really sweet at this point.
20:32: , gosh, probably like 87 and 9.
20:37: Yeah.
20:38: I know so many people when they talk about divorce, they’re like, I don’t know if she’s like old enough, like now is a good time, like I think they try and think like should I do, you know, should I wait for like a year, you know, there’s all this stuff because you’re literally, you know, introducing them to someone else.
20:54: Yeah, and like the, I would say.
20:57: There’s no right answer.
20:59: Like the and I work with a lot of divorced guys now.
21:02: Like I never saw myself as I’m going to be the guy that works with divorced men like ever, but, it chose me, I guess.
21:09: But, because I struggled with it so badly, I can resonate so much with the men who are struggling so badly.
21:17: That’s what it kind of draws them to me and we connect and, so, you know, a lot of it’s just confusion.
21:24: Like they don’t know.
21:26: If it’s the right choice, or like if I, I should date or not, and it’s really so much simpler to that.
21:32: Like I tell, it’s like, what do you want deep down for your life?
21:36: And you get to choose.
21:37: Like men are like, should I leave or should I stay?
21:40: It’s like, that’s not really the debate.
21:42: Is the relationship benefiting both of you now or is it toxic?
21:47: You know, is it a relationship should be a Like food.
21:50: It’s like, is it junk?
21:52: Is it bad for your body or is it good and supportive?
21:54: If it’s not supportive, that doesn’t mean you have to walk away now, but it might mean a break for a little while until you can support each other, and some people can handle that and some people cannot.
22:05: And I was somebody that could not.
22:07: Like I, I was too anxiously attached.
22:09: I had too many abandonment wounds.
22:10: My dad left when I was 5 years old, so I was very triggered when the divorce happened.
22:15: , any type of space just triggered me like crazy and I got super anxious and depressed and I had no idea why I was feeling the way I was feeling.
22:22: Like I could understand it mentally, but my body was now experiencing so much of what I hadn’t let it experience before.
22:31: So, yeah, and, and going through that and understand and learning how to process it all like getting to help others is like, you don’t have to make a choice of I think we overcomplicate relationships and if it’s good or healthy or whatever or if it’s good to date again, it’s like, are your daughters or your, I say daughters, are your kids healed enough to accept somebody new?
22:54: Have you done the work and And then likely most people know, and so they date and then it’s not good and then it’s like, well, at any opportunity you can start spinning the wheel in the right direction if you just start doing the work, you know, and you don’t have to leave the relationship.
23:10: You don’t have unless it’s abusive and yeah, then you get sorry yeah I love how you answered the question as like getting away from the shoulds and what’s true to you.
23:24: I think when people can connect to that and lead to that, then the rest will follow, you know, you just got to make one decision, the next decision appears.
23:30: And but it has to come from a place of like, I, I’m in alignment for this.
23:34: Like I, I want this thing and that doesn’t mean that that choice on the other side isn’t gonna create chaos, but if it’s an alignment for you, you’ll figure out the rest, and you said like you can always start to do the work around that too.
23:45: Totally, yeah, and I’m a huge believer in people working it out and like to answer the other part of your question, which is like How did I know I could go all in with Shiv was really when we started to do the work and how committed to the work we are because you, I know so many people that even have done the work and then start dating and then they’re like, well, I don’t want to give up this, right?
24:07: They’re ask like, what if they want to move to this other state?
24:10: And it’s like, you have to, if you’re really going to go all in with a partner, you have to be able to, to trust the relationship to handle any of life’s circumstances.
24:19: Like I could lose an arm tomorrow and it’s like, Can we handle that everything, you know, and when you go all in with someone that is willing to face every challenge with you and kind of No, so I guess the the real thing is when she no longer wanted to win.
24:40: At the, at my expense and vice versa like I don’t want to win if she loses, she doesn’t want to win if I lose, then you know you’re not gonna move in somebody’s, you know, to another state and somebody’s totally unhappy.
24:52: No, neither one of you feels like it’s a win if the other one loses.
24:56: And when you get to that point, it’s like, OK, I feel safe.
25:00: You said something so beautifully as to like, you know, can I trust that the relationship can get through anything.
25:07: And I think a way that we can do that is one by us creating a deep level of self-trust within ourselves, but then also learning how to, by doing that, we get to learn how to trust someone else in that as well.
25:22: And I think that’s a sneaky thing that shows up in relationships where you’re like That seems like some trust issues, but it doesn’t show up that way.
25:29: So I’m curious like if you have any comments on that, like how can someone create this like deeper level of trust that you’re not going to abandon me.
25:37: And if you do, I’m OK.
25:40: Yeah, that’s it.
25:41: You, you nailed it.
25:42: Like once you and from somebody who had trust issues and really struggled with it deeply, like so many insecurities, so much, you know, I had to work through.
25:53: It really came down to not trusting myself if this happened, like it, and then you and then your brain is always trying to prevent pain from happening, instead of just allowing a good thing to be good and like seeing if they’re gonna pan out.
26:08: But there’s no guarantee.
26:11: that your partner is not going to at some point go through something, get really unhealthy and cheat on you or develop a drinking problem or whatever, like, there’s just no, there’s no guarantee, so you have to trust yourself deep down that you’re going to be able to Set boundaries or, you know, leave if you have to and rebuild or handle anything, right?
26:32: Something we say a lot or talk a lot about on the podcast too is that, you know, everything is just a mirror like we’re all here to work through our shit.
26:40: It’s like who do you want to choose to work through your shit with because eventually you’re gonna have to do it in this life or the next.
26:47: You choose or you’re gonna come back and do unless you’re a star.
26:51: Totally.
26:52: And so it is, it’s like, OK, and that kind of sounds like what happened with Siobhan even is like, oh, I became aware.
26:58: I couldn’t do it with my previous partner because I wasn’t aware.
27:01: I became aware.
27:02: Now I find this person and I’m like, oh, I want to do this with you.
27:05: I want to go through the show.
27:06: With you.
27:07: I want to work through it.
27:08: And on the other side, as we’ve like met Siobhan and listened into more of your guys’ podcast and your relationship, it’s just like, it’s, it’s gone to such a beautiful place because you were willing to show up together and face each other and do the work.
27:21: And that’s such a gift.
27:22: Yeah, when you can really trust that other person when it’s like It sounds like you got some healing to do or like something and they’re like, alright, let me grab the journal.
27:30: I’ll see you like in an hour or like tomorrow or whatever or let me go on a trip, a solo trip and figure this one out.
27:37: Like you just trust that they’re gonna come back with some level of like.
27:42: Intuition and resolve and you know, you also maybe trust their alignment with God and like whatever, whatever they believe in, it’s like, go back to your higher power and sort this out and then come back because you’re, you’re just speaking from childhood wounds right now.
27:57: And when you can trust that, it’s like, how can you not go all in, you know.
28:01: It’s really, that’s really hard to find.
28:03: So true.
28:04: I was gonna say I think I have, I’ve heard this before from women and I think what’s difficult for women sometimes is like specifically is like we tend to lead in this work a lot.
28:15: you know, a lot of coaching containers are usually 80% women.
28:18: Like women are usually finding this work and something that I find that’s interesting that I’ve seen that women start to do the work in their relationship.
28:25: They start to show up, they start to change.
28:27: And maybe it does end up living in a divorce and a breakup, but one thing that men have reflected back to these women is like, I thought this was supposed to be easy.
28:36: And I know that women find it so and one specific person in my life where I was like, she was like, I’m so glad that someone’s willing to go through the hard with me.
28:46: And not expecting that relationship is gonna be easy because I think sometimes when you think of a relationship, you’re like, oh, it’s gonna be like butterflies.
28:54: It’s gonna be so nice.
28:55: We’re gonna have love, make love, have love, experience these beautiful things, but the truth is when you are in a partnership like using yours and Chivo’s and that you’ve cultivated, you’re gonna have those hard conversations as like.
29:07: This looks like a part of you that you need to go be with and go deal with that, you know, and like go, go, go work that out and like that’s an invitation for hard.
29:16: And so I’m also curious like what are your comments on that?
29:18: Like, knowing that when you’re doing the work, you are creating capacity to be in the hard.
29:25: I blame the movies for that.
29:27: The La La Land, yeah, it’s not like that, especially when you are doing the work together like.
29:33: You’re not doing the work to feel peace and bliss.
29:35: Yes, it’s on there on the other side, but to get there you’ve got to go through the hard.
29:42: Yeah, and too many men have it too easy in so many ways where they can.
29:46: You know, I think they just don’t, they, like going back, you know, what, 50, 100 years ago, like the mentality in a woman’s mind has been more like scarcity mentality.
29:57: Like, it’s harder to find a good man than and for men, they’re like,, you know, the standard’s been so low, like, just have a good job.
30:05: Like, I don’t need you to really be emotionally available.
30:07: I don’t really need you to be even consistent.
30:09: Just don’t cheat on me and have a good job and like you’re, you’re a good dude kind of.
30:14: And, the standards so low, so then men don’t go all in.
30:18: They’re just like, they need to get their heart broken, you know, and like get to that deeper layer.
30:23: And so, I mean, that’s, that’s where I was like I feel like the best thing.
30:27: For a man is like to fall in love probably and then the woman leave him and so he realizes that it’s not easy, you know, and maybe like he has to go through a dark night of the soul and rock bottom.
30:38: So many men aren’t hitting rock bottom, they’re just chasing the next easy relationship and, and just numbing the pain with alcohol and, all, you know, fun, really.
30:50: Let’s go surf, date the next girl, like move on to the next girl.
30:53: Like how many guys just have an abundance mentality when it comes to relationships and, you know, my dad was that way like he married 34 times, like, and so it’s just not really, they have to hit rock bottom, you know, to really like break that open.
31:09: I think a lot more women hit rock bottom earlier on or.
31:13: I just willing to.
31:14: Women hit rock bottom in the relationship and realize that in the relationship and men hit rock bottom when they’re, when the women leave and then they’re alone and they realize like how cared for or how like easy they had it maybe just like being in the monotonous day to day routine and not having to necessarily go into that kind of work.
31:35: Yeah, and I think that, you know, I’m hoping like with more men getting into the work, then we have better dads, and that can show the men the way like, hey, face this, you know, I’m gonna kind of face, make you face this earlier on, so that way you’re more prepared how hard a relationship is and not, you know, when we just don’t have a good example, we, we kind of tend to think it should be easy because other things are easy or, you know, that’s a The work is hard at work and then I come home and the relationship should just be like my safe haven and easy and it’s like, Like you’re not gonna be there for long and, you know, you’re not gonna be emotional connection is hard work.
32:14: Like getting to understand yourself emotionally and connecting and then also, you know, women want emotional connection more than most of the time.
32:26: So then a man learning how to support a woman emotionally through her cycles and through, it’s just, it’s a lot of work.
32:31: Like it’s not, there’s no easy, you know.
32:34: Mhm.
32:35: How did that feel being a dad?
32:37: Like how did your daughters affect this process for you and what was that like?
32:42: Because we know a lot of parents or people going through divorce and like the kid plays sometimes a big role and sometimes not big enough of a role and like how did that affect like you wanting to do the work and show up?
32:54: Yeah, oh my gosh, I would say the girls didn’t.
33:00: Unfortunately, it didn’t awaken me enough.
33:02: Like I was there, I had their relationship kind of easy.
33:05: So I thought like they respected me, they loved me.
33:09: They were so unconditionally loving to me.
33:11: I had them half the time and the time that I had them, they, they didn’t want to like upset me or hurt me in any way.
33:17: They, they almost like, probably were out of survival, emotionally supporting me, you know, and, and that was a problem.
33:29: And so I wasn’t aware of any of that and until I started dropping in and learning how to feel and understanding what in in this like long extensive of course.
33:39: Then I went and got a parenting coach.
33:41: So then I went to, it just didn’t stop.
33:42: Like I was like, oh, I need, I need all the training.
33:45: Like I didn’t get it in my childhood.
33:47: I’m so broken.
33:49: That I, let me find out all the tools and then I just went on a self-help, like, you know, crazy journey and but now like my daughters will say like there’s dad before he started going to classes and dad after and it’s just not even, it’s night and day like they, they don’t emotionally support me anymore.
34:10: Yeah, it’s, it’s hectic.
34:11: Like I, I will like if I didn’t do this work, I would have lost them.
34:16: They would be traumatized.
34:18: They would be.
34:19: I mean, I already, they already are like there are ways that I can see their trigger, and when they, I’ll give you one.
34:26: When my daughter spills.
34:28: And all of them, sorry if I’m oversharing for you, but I think she’d be fine with sharing it.
34:34: When she spills water, spills milk or something, she will cry sometimes like deeply and even if it’s just water and I had to learn like from understanding all this that.
34:46: It’s because earlier on, I got really frustrated with her and I would, I would kind of yell.
34:51: I would be like, what?
34:52: Why are you so clumsy?
34:53: Or like, I just, or just be mean, you know, I wasn’t like, I wasn’t like yelling or crazy abusive, but abuse is such a spectrum that, you know, I, I would say it was abusive.
35:04: Like I, if somebody was treating her like I was treating her, I’d probably kill that guy, you know, and, and So she now still has that trigger.
35:13: And so I, I’m aware now enough to see things and I’m like, oh, she’s crying like that.
35:18: Her response is because of the way that I treated her, you know, the 1st 5 years of her life.
35:23: So they were 4 and 5, they’re a year and a half apart.
35:25: They were 4 and 5 when the divorce happened.
35:27: And, that during that time, I was so on edge.
35:31: I was so stressed financially, just everything was so scary that, I was super short tempered.
35:38: And it’s a it’s a huge bummer, but now I can hold her and I can explain to her, hey, this is my fault.
35:45: Like your reaction here that you’re having, it’s OK to spill.
35:48: You made a mistake, like, but know that like the reason your your body’s responding this way is because of me and I’m sorry.
35:54: And like that’s healing, you know.
35:56: I’m gonna cry.
36:00: It’s the truth though, right?
36:01: like we can relate to that so deeply because that’s how our parents raised us, so many of us, like not purposefully creating these micro traumas, but just like you see that it’s so powerful and to like be able to still while they’re young to like hold them and say it’s OK.
36:19: Yeah, that’s a score.
36:25: Yeah.
36:27: It really does and then you see it on your kids and you’re like, oh, their body is just keeping the score of what I caused earlier and you just, if you can learn to fix it, that’s why I’m so passionate about men’s work because I’m like, guys, if you can learn to fix it now when your kids are.
36:41: You know, whatever age they are, even if they’re 21 or 2, like don’t wait another year.
36:46: Don’t wait another like guys like, oh, I don’t have the money or I don’t have the time.
36:50: It’s like.
36:51: Man, you can’t afford not to.
36:53: I spent, you know, probably 10,000 on coaching the first year that I was in this, and I, and I would, I would have spent 100,000.
37:02: I would even, I would, I would have sold my house and given the house, my life would be better because it’s just like, I can’t afford to keep causing trauma in my, you know, intimate relationship and with my kids.
37:14: It’s like my life, quality of life is so much better that I can handle these situations, like little life situations like spilling milk or being late for school would cause into a fire an argument and disconnection, and now it’s like almost like a moment of bonding.
37:28: , it’s just, it’s a game changer, like life changer.
37:32: I’m like, can we just sit and cry?
37:34: I know.
37:35: What do I do?
37:36: And it is like it doesn’t matter the age.
37:39: Like I’m in my 30s and my parents acknowledge certain things from my childhood and they’re like, I’m so sorry, like we did the best we could and like I acknowledge that this wasn’t given to you or we couldn’t provide this and even now it like makes me Feel so good to just know like, oh, I’m not crazy.
37:56: Like these triggers that happen or these deep beliefs that are in there that I’m trying to overcome are there for a reason.
38:02: Like they’re acknowledging this.
38:04: And I think that’s valid at any age.
38:06: It doesn’t matter whether your kids are 5 or they’re 35 or 55.
38:11: It feels so good to be validated and acknowledged and like see your own parent take responsibility.
38:17: And like give you permission to be you again.
38:20: I was gonna say too, I think it’s, so for my own work where in with people or my parents in certain ways like I had to realize cause my parents went through a separation and My dad said things that.
38:32: He did not mean at the time, but they have built this like deep wound within me.
38:37: And where I had to come to is to realize that he was hurting and that it wasn’t something he was doing at me, but in that season, he was hurting and And I think for kids, like where I think about parents that are trying to do all this healing work, they’re like, I’m trying to heal so I don’t keep fucking up my kids.
38:54: And it’s like, well, yes, and like I think the key thing is to teach our kids how to heal so that if we do trigger them or if we give them a lack of like they have the skill sets.
39:05: To be like, oh, this isn’t dad being mad at me or dad abandoning me.
39:11: Like this might be coming from somewhere else.
39:12: Like what does it look like for me to create safety within myself that I’m OK.
39:17: And so I think like what’s so beautiful about this work is that we get to such a gift to go back and say like I see you and I’m sorry.
39:27: And let me also teach you how you can do this for yourself.
39:32: Yeah, that’s how healing starts, right?
39:34: It’s like acceptance of like where we’re at and like what has happened to us and kind of it’s almost like coming to reality, you know, coming out of denial and into reality of like what, what are the things that negatively impacted me.
39:46: All right, now I can accept those, but I can also kind of Own the healing journey and like own the, the, you know, process of getting better and working towards not responding that way or like I, I cause trauma to my children, but unfortunately it’s there I can’t, I can only support their healing so much like they will have to do the inner work to be able to change their patterns.
40:11: But I can be there as like, yeah, and validate all day long like validate, validate, validate, and then just be like, but also like you probably don’t want to like spill water in high school and like crap, you know, so like let’s let’s work on these, you know, yeah.
40:26: I mean, we both believe like we choose our parents and so we’re like if we become parents or we choose to be parents.
40:35: You’re also facilitating their own personal lessons.
40:37: So everything that you did and like they were meant to experience that so that they could overcome whatever it is that they’re working through.
40:46: But the beauty is you’re giving them the gift of working through it so much sooner in life than we got to work through it, which is so beautiful, which is how I think the world will really shift in huge ways because our kids are coming to par.
40:58: who are waking up, doing the work and maybe they still have the micro traumas, but they’re like, oh, but then my dad at 7 did all this work and he’s like sitting here holding me like, and we’re working through this and like, I mean, what a gift.
41:11: That’s so amazing.
41:12: Like we’re all in our 30s trying to figure that out.
41:15: Oh my gosh, yeah, like my parents got divorced when I was so young and then I look back at like how I navigated that and then Watching my kids kind of see it.
41:24: It was, they kind of went into similar patterns and then now with the tools I can apply, it just changed everything because I’ve learned that like, oh, they don’t just heal from the divorce at this age for like a year or two, like every year that they grow in awareness, they can understand a new level of grief that comes with parents being divorced.
41:46: Like, but the thing can also start to appreciate, you know, their, their stepmom and they love Shiv, like they’re So grateful they would never, you just it’s holding it in both hands, right?
41:55: And so these tools and and like awareness just help us to constantly grieve, constantly heal, and then, build a better life.
42:05: It’s so amazing.
42:06: Can I ask like a divorce dynamic?
42:10: OK, on the last interview, you asked the question I was gonna ask.
42:15: You guys are in sync.
42:16: Yeah, I’m sending her earlier.
42:23: so the divorce dynamics, so like are is your ex-wife in the picture?
42:27: What does that look like?
42:28: Like how do your kids, like I’d love to know a little bit of the dynamic and how you guys continue to relate to one another, don’t relate to one another.
42:35: What does that look like?
42:36: Yeah, very much.
42:37: I mean, it’s fifty-fifty split, and you know, they love their mom and we have a, we have a good relationship as good as one.
42:45: I think that like is healthy and we don’t see eye to eye probably on a lot of things and that’s OK.
42:51: Like I think that’s such a misconception in parents, even parents who live together versus you know, even co-parenting situations.
43:02: Like Shiv and I can’t agree on everything, like we’re not, we, that’s like codependence almost is not understanding like, you know, we.
43:09: We’re different identities.
43:11: We’re different humans with different experiences.
43:12: So there’s no way I would agree on everything with, you know, someone who I ended up in a divorce with too, like that’s and it was married in at 20 years old.
43:23: So like letting it be kind of like you, I don’t know if you read the book yet, like, but like the Let Them theory by Mel Robbins, like, it’s totally applies to divorce dynamic like just let them.
43:35: As long as they’re not harming the children, like you just have to let go.
43:38: And this was a huge part of kind of pivoting into this work was actually having to let go of, you know, my financial situation at the time and what the courts would decide and all that.
43:50: Like if so much was outside of my control, it just kind of broke me.
43:54: And, you know, the, the, so she’s in the picture, she handles them the way that she sees best and I think that she does so many things well and she’s such a good mom to them and, they, they love her so much and I just try to support that dynamic, even when I disagree.
44:11: Because like she done any kind of inner work?
44:14: You know, I don’t like know a lot.
44:16: Like I, I know, I know she has like gone to therapy and stuff, but I don’t know.
44:21: I couldn’t speak for like because we just don’t talk on that level.
44:25: Yeah, I think maybe at some point like we, we would, but I, I think it’s kind of just at the point where like, like best to like live.
44:35: In our, you know, own worlds like we’re in different friend groups and different things and I just like support the relationship as much as possible.
44:43: I think it can get a little tricky when you hang around.
44:46: I mean, some people do it though, like every situation, there’s no right and wrong.
44:50: It’s just, that’s what works for us is this balancing kind of just like trust, just trusting that she’s doing what’s right for the kids.
44:58: And if I don’t agree, literally I have no say anyway.
45:01: So like if I go to pick a battle.
45:04: It’s actually gonna harm the situation or like I could bring something up in love or like be like, hey, what do you think?
45:10: But I can’t, I can’t tell her like what time to put the kids to bed or things like that.
45:14: It’s just too micromanaging.
45:16: I wasn’t asked that.
45:17: It’s like the co-parenting stuff because I think so many people like I just like every time you speak I’m like oh I’ve heard this people source and say this person that.
45:24: And it’s so hard when you do so, I don’t know, you can think that like I’m doing the best for my kid when they’re here, but what’s happening when they’re on the in the other person’s house?
45:36: Like I can’t control that.
45:37: Like how do you internally navigate that for parents that are like any parent, the wife or the dad in this situation, like being able to actually let go and say like What you do here is still enough too.
45:52: Yeah.
45:55: Yeah, you gotta let go of the codependency with a divorce, it’s easier.
46:06: bit longer and I know like I think ideally you wouldn’t have to let go that young, but when you go through divorce, there’s almost no other way around it.
46:14: And so if you’re still co-dependent with your kid about your kid believing something different than you, or even enmeshed in that way, then you are.
46:24: You know, if your kid isn’t.
46:25: , like liking something in other home or is, you know, you can’t really control it unless it’s, unless the law, like you can’t really come after them.
46:37: and if you try, you can really make it worse because let’s say, you know, you have the somebody starts dating somebody that you don’t like your ex starts dating somebody you don’t like and then you’re trying to pick apart that situation like you don’t have a say anymore.
46:50: When you divorce, it’s really you’re giving up the right.
46:54: To that part of the custody and then when you try to, you can go with the law, but, I would, I always advise guys to let go.
47:02: Like when I, when I coach men, they’re like, and it’s so hard to you know watch them they’re just like, what do you mean?
47:08: Like she’s not taking them to church on Sunday and it’s like, hey, you all let go.
47:12: Like the quicker you like the more because what you’re Not seeing is that your attempt to control is actually causing waves, like negative vibration amongst like amongst the kids.
47:25: What’s hap what’s better for my kids is me and their mom getting along in a pickup.
47:30: We’re not staring each other down or like, you know, having aggressive arguments or things like that.
47:35: It’s like we can just like be like, hey, how are you?
47:37: Like, how is this or whatever, you know, and.
47:40: And it’s better for the kids if the parents get along to my knowledge, like everything I’ve studied than it is for you to get your way and how you think that they should be parented.
47:50: Yeah, Yeah, because we come from our parents and we’re so intertwined with our parents, they came.
48:00: Yeah, I’ll finish that statement because we come from our parents and we’re so intertwined with them, in our identity at first and then that like slowly like, you know, kind of dissipates over time.
48:15: But when the dad hates the mom and the mom hates the dad, it’s like as a kid, you’re like, oh they hate part of me because we’re, we’re kind of, we are in fact in mesh when we’re born with our parents, we need them for survival.
48:29: So, I just believe that like the best thing in the world is for the kids to believe that, you know, the relationship is at least like.
48:37: Somewhat loving and there’s still love there as a human, you know, when you cause conflict and fights, it just is not over bedtime, like, yeah, you’re fighting for your kids.
48:47: So much so it’s this, it’s fighting for the the food they eat, or like people will disagree on the diet.
48:54: And it’s like, OK, is it better for your kid to have a good diet or is it better for the parents to get along?
48:59: I will just like read the, I think it’s way better for the parents to get along because their relationship, their identity, their core identity is, is being threatened when they think their mom hates their dad or their dad hates their mom.
49:11: I just, I think that’s way more impactful.
49:13: And the emotional stress of that on the kids, you know what I mean like diet is, we believe so we are huge fans of like eating organic, eating really well food and like non-processed food and nourishing foods just as we stand and Yeah, as, as, as we stand, and you know, what we so badly believe that if you’re eating the naughty food and you’re beating yourself down for eating food that you quote unquote think that you should not be eating, that is so much more harmful to your body and your soul than just eating the food.
49:45: And if your kids, I just like, not that I think about this, but I think about like if the kids also tend to be like, well, Mom and dad are fighting over the food that I’m eating and one mom saying that I can’t have it.
49:57: The other dad is saying I can’t have it.
49:59: Like they’re now creating this like inner conflict within themselves.
50:02: It’s like, well, mommy says that I can’t eat this food and dad’s saying I can’t eat this food, and so now they’re not only Navigating like the naughty food that they shouldn’t be eating for themselves, but their body is also going to reject it because of the emotional stress that they’re adding to the entire experience.
50:18: So no longer becomes about the diet, it just comes down to the actual emotional stress that’s being imprinted on that little child’s body.
50:27: Yeah, and we’re just coming to like awareness, I think, well, I am, you know, maybe this has been around for hundreds of years, but like I’m, I’m new to this, knowledge of emotional stress being so much more impactful on the way you make decisions and how you’re You can handle a job when you’re older, just every how you handle other, you know, relationships.
50:45: So, yeah, it’s huge.
50:47: I, I’m a big fan of co-parents like just, you know, if you can, if you can get along and you can be on the same page about everything, by all means, that’s awesome.
50:55: That’s best case scenario.
50:56: But if you have disagreements, like you just got to let it go and and also even in not in a divorce dynamic like in a A marriage, you still got to let go.
51:07: If Shiv wants to feed him something when I’m not like I’m not there right now, she’s with the girls.
51:11: If she wants to feed them something like I can’t get home and pick her apart over it.
51:14: Like it’s kind of just, yeah, you gotta let people be autonomy.
51:22: I love what you said about.
51:22: Independence with kids because I don’t know if you’ve ever read Dan Siegel books.
51:27: he’s a he’s amazing.
51:30: And one of the things he talks about is really validating kids and I, it’s interesting because my husband and I were at dinner the other night and we just, I love observing parents, you know, we’re not parents yet.
51:39: And I was watching how they, this family sat next to us and they had 3 boys.
51:45: One was really young and the other two were like toddlers, maybe 7 and 5 or something.
51:51: And there was one son that kept really triggering the dad.
51:54: And you could hear it in like the invalidation of him and, and it was just so interesting to realize these like microaggressions that were coming out.
52:03: And it made me think about how, whether it’s our children, our relationships, like there are, they come here to be our little mirrors to like, and you could and it was like, I mean, props to him, he was trying and he was really like trying to be like.
52:17: OK, I can do this, you know, like you can see it.
52:20: He was like freaking out and then he’s like, oh yeah,-huh, like, OK.
52:25: And it just made me think about how that happens to all of us in every area of our life all the time.
52:31: It’s just like how well we learn to deal with the trigger or deal with like the little, the the frustration that comes when something happens.
52:40: And I think when we can become aware of that, it really impacts how we show up for kids and how we show up for our partners and each other.
52:50: And I’m curious like how I know you gave one example of your daughter and how you Seeing that show up, but what are other ways, like maybe even in some of your clients that you’ve seen the relationship shift in a positive way or what that looks like to once they start becoming more aware of how they’re impacting their family dynamic.
53:09: Oh, it’s so huge.
53:10: Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen this so many times with guys.
53:13: It’s like we want to control and so we want every and also when we’re not emotionally aware, we don’t really do well with kids’ emotions like dads who can’t handle.
53:25: A lot of emotions you can just see it like but yeah it’s it’s upstairs, stuck with the kids.
53:34: I’m out.
53:34: I’m gonna go do whatever.
53:36: Yeah, I’m going golfing.
53:38: I get in the car.
53:39: Yeah, and so when they start to be able to validate, it’s, it’s just such a game changer in the children because I mean you just imagine you’re invalidated by, you know, your dad, your dad, like moms are so important.
53:52: Dads are also so important like you can’t really.
53:54: It’s just the, the roles are very important.
53:57: And so, they look up to you, especially like a young boy like looking up to a dad is like, you know, constantly being invalid.
54:04: Like, don’t cry, like don’t, you know, what are you talking about?
54:07: It’s just spilt milk or whatever and you’re just yelling and then it’s just getting worse and worse because they’re crying out for validation more and more and more and then all of a sudden they feel validated and secure and they’re like, oh, this is, this feels so good, you know, so yeah.
54:24: It it changes the whole dynamic entirely.
54:26: I love that.
54:26: , this has been such a great conversation where I want to like get to know you just a little bit more.
54:32: also is like, so we ask this question to all of our guests.
54:37: where in your life do you feel called to be fully expressed?
54:41: Like, this can be in life, relationship, business, health, anything that’s calling you to be like more of you or calling you forward.
54:49: Oh, it’s such a good question.
54:50: I love it.
54:52: you guys are awesome.
54:53: This is, yeah, I love, I love what you’re doing, I’m gonna go deep.
54:57: I’ll go, I’ll, I’ll share an insecurity of mine.
55:00: I am as in doing all this work, I really realized the areas that I’ve been shut down before.
55:07: So even like podcasting and stepping into men’s work, like leading has been very stretching for me, even though I let in like the corporate way, but like with emotions and stuff.
55:16: , but where I struggle most that I haven’t, I’ve done some work and I’m getting there is, like dancing, like dancing or play with my kids and stuff like that.
55:31: So my fully expressed self, like my highest version of me, I know, is actually I’ve gotten there with like shi and the girls like at home.
55:40: I’m, I’m nuts sometimes and I’ll dance like crazy.
55:43: I did it the other day when she was on a call and I was like joking with her and I was like, oh, I shouldn’t have done that.
55:47: But, but I feel called to do it with men and like dance and play with men and like get and help other men express like become fully expressed as well, like embrace their.
55:59: What you would say maybe more feminine side, but I, I just believe like we all have it in us to, to dance and play to you.
56:05: And so I have like friends that are really rigid and like corporate guys and I’m like, let’s go like figure out how we can open you up to you because that’s actually I’m still struggling there too, so yeah this is a gift, especially if you’re doing it in a container where you don’t have.
56:20: Drugs or alcohol to like help you get there and I think this is not just like something for men, but I think it’s just for every person like letting yourself connect to your body and be like, what do I want to do right now, you know, like how can I just like express myself in the best way and I think opening the door for that and letting that come through is gonna be so beautiful.
56:41: I’m, I’m so excited that you’ve walked through the door.
56:42: There’s just like so much more of you that’s gonna come through.
56:45: Oh yeah, it’s a huge growth or like even like dancing at my wedding, I’m a bit like oh my gosh, yeah, it’s hard for me like.
56:56: Growth edge is going to be a lot of fun.
56:58: I think I’m just constantly working to and Shiv is like, would, you know, it’s her deepest desire.
57:04: So like, I feel like why not try to lean into that and like it’s so much of love is leaning into the areas that we know our partner would want us to, like they’re trying to heal us in a way, subconsciously, you know.
57:15: And so, yeah, I’d love to be able to gift her with like some of that more playful side of me.
57:21: yeah I love what you just said.
57:23: That you’re reaching for the thing that she loves, even though it’s uncomfortable for you, you want to like step into that part of her world.
57:33: That’s such a gift.
57:34: That’s love, right?
57:35: Like that’s like literally where we like and we’re always kind of pushing for more like as a relationship goes on, it’s like I want more of you.
57:40: Like come on, come on.
57:42: I think it creates a deeper connection with you guys.
57:45: a deeper level of intimacy and like a new version of you.
57:47: I always say I was like, when you’re in a relationship, you’re at the greatest show of your life.
57:52: You get to witness this person evolve and become a new person.
57:56: And it’s the most beautiful thing.
57:57: So like if you’re leaning into your growth ge, you’re going to evolve into this new way of being that she hasn’t felt before and how beautiful for her to be like, wow.
58:07: I love this.
58:08: Yeah, and she could make me like feel more insecure about it and attack it, and I would shut down more or she can like make me feel safe.
58:15: Like where would you feel safe to come dance or like, and then I’ll come out more, you know, it’s like it’s just that experience of, you know, creating safety for the other person and then you’re like supporting their blossoming.
58:32: Thank you so much.
58:32: This is such a great conversation.
58:32: Where can people find you?
58:34: The best places on IG on Instagram, just Dave Martinel.
58:39: that’s probably, yeah, we’re all of you podcasts, that’s our podcast and yeah, if you, I’m always on there so you reach out anytime.
58:46: Thank you so much.
58:47: I feel like the time flew by.
58:48: I was looking at the time.
58:49: I was like, oh my gosh, I could have been this forever.
58:58: It truly felt like you’re sitting at.
58:58: Yeah, we’ll have to hang out because I was like, we need to talk and then you also just brought us to tears.
59:02: I like the emotional spectrum over here.
59:06: thank you for being such a gift and thank you so much for the work that you’re doing and how you’re speaking about it and Really helping divorced dads and and human beings in this work.
59:16: Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.
59:18: Yeah, what you guys are doing it.
59:23: Thank you so much for tuning in.
59:24: We really appreciate you being here.
59:26: If you enjoyed this episode, we’d be grateful if you could leave us a review and share it with a friend.
59:32: Also, we would love to hear from you.
59:34: Reach out to us on Instagram and let us know where you feel inspired to express yourself as you embrace this next era.
59:41: We are here to support you and encourage you.
59:44: Before we go, we want to remind you that you are powerful and deserving a fully Expressing who you are.
59:50: Embracing your journey toward authenticity is a vital part of that process, and we’re grateful to be alongside you.
59:56: If you’re looking to dive deeper and connect with others who celebrate their true selves, we invite you to join our community.
1:00:02: It’s a virtual space for connection and accountability where you can share your experiences and grow together.
1:00:08: You can find the link in our show notes.
1:00:10: We can’t wait to welcome you.
1:00:12: See you on the next one.