#108: When Confidence Meets the Camera with Kaysha Van Der Hayden

0:02: Welcome to the Fully Expressed podcast.
0:04: We’re your hosts, Karenna and Samantha.
0:06: This show is your permission slip to stop holding back.
0:10: Here we talk about what it really means to live unapologetically you in your relationships, your business, and your everyday life.
0:17: We believe the most magnetic version of you is rooted in self.
0:20: Self-expression, honesty, vulnerability, and showing up fully as you are.
0:24: When you own that, you naturally attract the people, the opportunities, and the life that is meant for you.
0:29: Welcome back to another incredible episode on the Fully Express podcast where we dive deep into a real conversation about what does it feel like to be in front of the camera.
0:40: Today we talked to Kaysha Van der Hayden.
0:43: She is a brand photographer who helps women confidently show up in front of the camera and overcome body image issues.
0:49: With over a decade of experience capturing authentic, empowering images, Kaysha guides women in embracing their bodies, expressing their unique style, and using photography as a tool to reclaim confidence.
1:02: If you’re ready to finally feel comfortable, confident, and unapologetically yourself in your photos and in your life, then you’re really going to love this conversation.
1:11: Oh, I feel like this conversation really takes us back to or takes me back to every single moment that I took a photo and I didn’t want to post it, or every single time that I avoided the photoshoot because I didn’t think that I was ready.
1:22: I felt like I needed to lose an extra 10 pounds or I needed to get a haircut, or I needed to spend the money on a new outfit because I was trying to show up a specific way that the world portrays.
1:33: And in this conversation specifically, Keisha really walks us through what does it look like to show up as you, to really capture your essence and see the beauty beyond what we’re supposed to look like, but really can get to look like when we get to be us.
1:46: She brought us to tears, and you may cry too.
1:49: Enjoy.
1:52: Hi, thank you so much for being here.
1:54: We’re so excited to have you today.
1:56: I’m so excited to be here.
1:58: We knew you needed to be on the podcast for so many reasons, but for those that don’t know, we met at Like Minded OC.
2:05: In Ball’s been on the podcast.
2:06: She’s been on the show, so connecting the dots like this came, this connection came from an in-person event that we both love.
2:14: Yeah, I mean, it’s wild.
2:16: You think about all the connections that you’re like, if I didn’t show up in person, all these other things would never have happened.
2:21: I never would have met you.
2:22: Yeah, literally, and I feel like that’s what we’re running into all the time.
2:24: We talk about that.
2:24: We were.
2:25: Talking about community earlier, it’s like, how do you find community?
2:28: It takes a matter of finding yourself out there.
2:30: But what I’ve loved in getting to know you, through like Mei has been one, you’re an incredible photographer, absolutely killing it.
2:38: So for those that don’t know, she’s an incredible photographer here located in Orange County.
2:41: You should book with her.
2:42: But second, I just love your vulnerability and your authenticity.
2:46: And I think we need to like pull the string on that a little bit.
2:49: Yeah, wow, that’s really nice.
2:50: Thank you.
2:51: I think that as a photographer, I’ve been professionally working for over 15 years and It has always been a process of peeling the onion and being able to show more of myself and not just hide behind my camera.
3:07: So little by little, it’s been easier and more comfortable for me to be more vulnerable and to show up more authentically how I actually am as a person and not just focus on my clients all the time.
3:19: And I think I’ve gotten a lot more comfortable doing that in the last few years, especially.
3:23: So tell me, I guess tell me a little bit about that.
3:25: What does it, what does it feel like to be a photographer behind the camera, like where the client is like the, it’s safe.
3:34: It feels completely safe.
3:35: Like all the attention’s on you.
3:37: My job is to just make you shine, to make you look amazing, to make you feel like you’re having a really amazing, wonderful time, and I don’t have to think about me.
3:45: There’s also just like a lot of Peace in just being focused on one thing for like an hour or two, like the whole world drops away and all you have to do is focus on taking photos for like 2 hours and it’s so lovely.
3:57: Have you always been that way?
3:59: Like, like, do you, do you show up that way in your life in other areas?
4:02: Like where the other person is like hyper focused, like everything is about them.
4:07: Yes, in a lot of areas of my life, yeah, yeah, like, my family for sure.
4:13: I’m a mom, so I think it’s really easy to fall into those patterns of putting everybody else’s needs in front of mine, even just like as simply as what are we having for dinner?
4:22: What do we want to do today, so it’s always been kind of the default and the people pleasing tendencies of how Does everybody else want to do things and then fitting myself into that if I even do.
4:35: We can relate to that.
4:36: Yeah, absolutely.
4:37: So what did it look like now that you’re saying you’ve stepped into more of your confidence and authenticity like behind the camera maybe in your family too?
4:44: Like what does that look like for you?
4:47: Slowing down enough to know what I actually want.
4:52: to you?
4:53: No, no, it definitely doesn’t come easy anyway.
4:58: I think sometimes I just have to keep moving and in that constant motion, there’s no time to think about what I really want, so making time and space in my calendar to just be open is really, really helpful for me.
5:13: Like having that space in between.
5:14: I mean, I like just thinking about because I’ve definitely run into that myself where I fall into more like, I don’t know, like, what do you want?
5:20: And like I’m like, I don’t know what I want like you choose, it’s so much easier for you to choose, but I think a little bit of like mother, what do you, what do you want?
5:27: We just did it early.
5:28: I was like, what do you want to do with this hour that we’ve got and everyone in the room was like, I don’t know, you choose.
5:32: And I was like, we, you guys, we have to decide something.
5:36: But I think the other complexity that you added to that, I don’t know if this applies to all mothers, but I think it’s just like our culture is this go, go, go ness and like.
5:44: Either we’re taking care of and I’ll say like my husband, my dog, or your kids, and like other things or business and work, so like there’s always this next thing of like, well, I gotta keep the ball moving forward, like I really don’t have the time to pause and check in.
5:57: What do I really want?
5:58: What does it look like?
5:59: What do I want to eat today, not just eat the thing that’s gonna get me through the day.
6:03: Yeah, you know, yeah, so how have you, I would love to know because like now like specifically what I love, you do these like vulnerable emails where you like share more of yourself.
6:15: What inspired you to like want to share more of you, especially since like everything, it sounds like most of your life, business and personal life revolves around like other people.
6:25: When I started photography, I primarily focused on weddings and families, babies, and I did that for over a decade, and then I gradually pivoted to only working with personal brands, female businesses, and when I made that shift, I really saw dramatically the change that happened in women when you took away their partner and you took away their children from in a photo with them, and it was just left with them.
6:50: All of the insecurities just started coming up.
6:52: All of the negative thoughts in our minds were just like so apparent in these women as we were doing shoots and At first I was like, this sucks.
7:01: Like, what do I do?
7:02: I don’t know how to look for this.
7:03: Like, I’m not a therapist.
7:04: I’m a photographer.
7:05: Like I don’t feel like I am trained or capable to like walk people through this.
7:11: And then I had like the lightning bolt moment where I was like, I have to be the one to do it.
7:17: If I’m telling you that you need to show up authentically for your business, I have to do the same thing.
7:22: I have to lead the way, which, oh, just like makes my skin so crawl right now just even saying that I was like, oh, I have to actually do this.
7:30: So I started photographing myself more.
7:33: I started doing more self portraits with my camera, my professional gear, and that was really fun and creative and I saw ways to see myself that I hadn’t ever been able to explore with a photographer, with somebody else.
7:48: I could do it in like the safety of my home.
7:50: I could do that on the moments that you’re just feeling really good and you want to like step in front of the camera.
7:55: And then through email, I think the words started to form.
7:59: I had vocabulary to describe how I was feeling because I had taken the time to take the pictures first.
8:05: And then now the emails and the writing just flows so easily for me.
8:11: It is literally my favorite form of marketing.
8:13: And I don’t think about it.
8:15: I don’t stress out about it like I do with like other forms like Instagram.
8:18: , but now I just feel like it is a space that I can just say whatever I need, and you can take it or leave it, and if it’s not your cup of tea, that’s OK.
8:28: Yeah, you can leave.
8:29: Yeah, what do you think is the biggest block that after going through that experience, like, what do you think is the biggest block, like why people freeze in the camera or they struggle to like just relax and be themselves?
8:43: I think the biggest block is that we’ve all been taught that what we look like is the most important thing.
8:51: Yeah.
8:52: And that couldn’t be farther from the truth, in my opinion.
8:55: I think we’re all so much more interesting than what we look like.
8:58: I think our value has very little to do with what we look like, but we’ve been told that from a really young age.
9:04: So as soon as we’re put in situations that we have to present, In a stereotypical essence of like beauty or whatever, we freeze up because we’re like, that’s not me, we’re being pushed into molds that I don’t think any of us really fit.
9:20: So good.
9:21: I mean, I think about this like, yes, and a part of me, I mean, it’s just what people present, right?
9:27: Like you see photos of other people and these women look perfect and you’re like, I don’t look perfect.
9:33: What do you mean?
9:34: Like I’m supposed to look that way.
9:35: Like that’s when you take a photo, that’s what you’re supposed to look like on the other side of that.
9:40: I mean, we’ve both personally struggled with so much of that in general.
9:44: I mean, we’ve had our own.
9:45: Self-confidence issues, body image issues, not wanting to take a photo.
9:50: Oh my gosh, I remember when I was younger, I’d be like, I don’t want to take a photo because I don’t feel good.
9:54: I don’t want anyone to see me like this or like in the photo like I would specifically hide, so like I’d want to put myself behind the next person and be like, OK, how do I make myself look smaller and like hide between someone else.
10:05: I wasn’t like the one in the front, right?
10:07: And I think We all like that feeling can also come through and it’s like, how do we navigate that?
10:14: It’s like one question, like the reason I really want you to be on here is like you’re such an advocate for people to show up in their business and their brand and their photos.
10:23: That’s how they are today, not who they think they need to be, like not really.
10:27: to lose the 10 pounds or not waiting until your hair is perfect or the Botox kicks in, you know, like you are you’re such an advocate for show up as you today, like the you today is the real you and how did you, how do you get people to get on board with that?
10:47: Idea.
10:48: That’s a big ask.
10:50: I don’t, I don’t think I can, I can, I can show people and I can recommend to people that that’s what I think they should do, but I can’t force anyone to do it.
11:00: so I think that is.
11:03: An option that I don’t think people even know is open to them, that you don’t have to go buy a new wardrobe, you don’t have to lose the weight, you don’t have to get full hair and makeup, which there’s nothing wrong with that, any of those things, but you don’t have to do those things in order to step in front of the camera.
11:18: You can actually just do it.
11:21: Yeah, it gets to be that simple.
11:23: You can just do it.
11:23: You don’t have which is so not normal.
11:25: I remember like high school.
11:26: I was like, what do you mean?
11:27: I got to go buy new clothes.
11:28: I got to get a hair done.
11:29: I got to book the appointment.
11:31: I want to get my makeup done.
11:32: I wanted to be perfect for these branding photos, and there’s like a lot of pressure in wanting to show up that way.
11:38: Yeah, it’s insane.
11:40: We paid $900 for a makeup artist on our first photo shoot.
11:43: We did.
11:45: Yeah, and we didn’t even love the photos, ironic.
11:47: I mean, we loved the photography and like she was a great photographer, but like I think there are parts of us that were like, oh, I didn’t love my face here.
11:53: I didn’t love how this looks, and I think that’s been a journey in itself though.
11:57: Like even now, like I mean, fast forward to Karena today, like I actually don’t like getting my makeup done.
12:03: I’d rather be, I wear as less makeup as possible.
12:05: Like I honestly think I’m more beautiful in some ways with no makeup on.
12:11: Like I prefer my day to day to be with no makeup on.
12:13: , but that took me a while to get there and like, to realize that there was a disconnect between like, OK, I got the makeup done.
12:21: And I look a certain way.
12:22: Maybe like this is what everyone says I should look like, but that’s not me.
12:26: And like now I’m in this place.
12:26: I’m like that doesn’t feel good.
12:28: Like I 10 times rather do my own makeup even right now I’m planning for my wedding, and they’re all asking me like, do you want to do your trial for your makeup?
12:34: And I’m like, I have so much resistance.
12:36: I like, I don’t want to not look like me at my wedding.
12:39: So yeah, and I think people really lean into wanting to not look like themselves.
12:44: For any photographic event, but in business and even in like family photos, this was kind of had been a journey for me in our own personal family photos where I was like, why am I always wearing a dress in family photos?
12:57: I’m always buying new outfits for us and I’m like, this is not us.
13:00: This is not the reality of our life at all.
13:02: This is not us as a family.
13:04: So even like in our family pictures the last few years, I have On purpose, not gone shopping, not done makeup, and like actually taken the photos in areas that we spent time because I’m like, why am I going to the beach like in a full dress and full makeup?
13:18: Like that doesn’t make any sense to me and doesn’t feel right as a family because then I’m just looking back on these photos in 15 years and it’s like, oh, look at how hard I worked to make this image.
13:27: It reminds me of like there was that, there’s always the one kid in your class or the couple of kids in your class who like they did the family photo every year and they were always.
13:35: Wearing like blue jeans and the same color t-shirt and they like lined the stairwell.
13:40: And I was just thinking like, I mean, that was not my family at all.
13:43: I don’t think we ever took coordinated photos.
13:44: It was just like a random shot at Christmas of the back of people’s heads.
13:48: But there was something beautiful about, about that because you’re, I mean, you know, you’re capturing the moments though, like nothing was, like, I think back to when we were in the 80s and 90s, like nobody, it was so different.
13:58: Like, yes, there were model shots and there was like, there was the mall you could go to and take shots.
14:03: But I feel like there was less pressure because we didn’t have cell phones, we didn’t have all these other ways to like, we didn’t have Photoshop and all these things like you were just like, oh, here’s my Nikon camera, let me take a photo and hope it comes out, or here’s my Polaroid.
14:16: So it’s interesting, like, how do you think That evolution has brought us, like it almost sounds like it’s like a, you’re rewiring going back to that way.
14:27: Yes, and I love like the old point and shoot cameras that I feel like we all have like thick albums somewhere that our parents or grandparents are just like a thick and everyone’s like half of People in the photos, like their eyes are closed, they’re blurry.
14:41: Like they’re not great pictures, but it’s also like a real glimpse of like life or like Christmas morning or different family vacations.
14:48: And that is really, I think the beauty and the essence of photography is capturing those moments that feel real and authentic, not creating something that is perfect.
14:58: How do you bring that into branding with people?
15:00: Like, how do you bring that into your photo shoots in the studio?
15:03: Like, what types of ways do you get women to let go of this perfect image of like, it needs to look like Vogue or something?
15:09: It’s a really good question.
15:11: Every person is different and there’s no like one formula, but my favorite thing to do with people is just distract them as much as possible because we all put up like walls in front of ourselves, whether it’s during a photo shoot and other things.
15:25: And if I can just talk to someone and if I can just shoot the shit with them about literally anything, I will talk to them about.
15:30: Anything that is going on just to distract them from what is going on, I can see that wall like drop and sometimes it goes right back up, but I can see it drop and I’m like, there they are.
15:39: Like there’s the person, there’s their essence.
15:41: That is what I want to see.
15:42: So just getting them comfortable enough, comfortable enough to see that is really what I focus on.
15:48: Aesthetically, I think it is.
15:51: Nice to have great lighting.
15:53: I think it is nice to be in situations that you feel good, and ultimately, I want my clients to feel really good about their photos and be able to use them to promote their business, to promote their services.
16:03: but little by little, I think when they start to actually see themselves in not this perfect way.
16:12: They get more used to seeing themselves, how they really are.
16:15: And the more we see ourselves, maybe not necessarily in the most flattering light, flattering angle all the time, it starts to rewire our brain.
16:22: Like this is what I actually look like, and that is OK.
16:25: It doesn’t have to be perfect all the time.
16:27: , oh, there’s so much one, OK, so one thing I think about being behind the camera in my own experience has been one of the most healing places to be, because it kind of puts you in a situation to do that.
16:38: Like all the photo shoots I’ve done in the past, like at first I put a lot of more pressure, but the more that I became more of me, the more I fell in love with the photos later, and I was like, wait, that was such an empowering experience.
16:50: Also, like, in addition to what you’re talking about, like not only are you trying to find their essence, but I think on the other side as someone that’s been photographed or been.
16:57: The client, it’s also so healing to see yourself and to be you behind the camera.
17:05: Yeah, and there’s kind of an arc, especially with business owners that I’ve seen, is that everyone, their first professional shoot for the business, they show up typically how they think they should, whether it’s a lawyer, it’s a doctor, it’s an acupuncturist, they all show up in this certain like way that we all picture.
17:21: what the industries are, and that’s the first shoot.
17:23: And then they use it and then they get a little more comfortable in what they’re doing and then the next shoot starts to look a little bit more like that.
17:30: And the more we work together, the more it actually peels back to the person that’s actually there.
17:34: And then by the end of it, after like Maybe like 3 or 4 shoots, like they don’t have makeup on.
17:39: Like they’re just who they are, and I think it’s just getting comfortable in your identity outside of just you as a person, but you in your business.
17:48: Yeah, so that’s like a very common arc I see.
17:51: I love that.
17:51: I mean, it’s kind of, I love this for anyone that’s listening to like remember like show up for the shoot and then do it again and then do it again and like you’ll find yourself the more that you show up for the shoot.
18:01: And I think people have so much resistance to the shoe in the first place, you know, so one question I want to ask you is like, how, what are some mindset shifts that you support someone with when they are scared to be in front of the camera.
18:14: I have to remind myself this often that this isn’t that deep.
18:19: Like it’s just a photo.
18:21: If you don’t like it, it can be deleted and you never have to look at it again.
18:25: This isn’t a full representation of you as a person.
18:28: Like that’s it.
18:29: It’s not that deep.
18:30: so I have to remind myself that a lot.
18:32: And then also you’re like, but I’m an artist.
18:35: I get it.
18:35: You’re like, it’s, it is and it isn’t.
18:37: Yeah, and also that it’s OK not to be perfect.
18:43: Nobody’s perfect.
18:44: It’s OK to just show up how you are.
18:46: It’s not going to be as scary as you think it’s going to be.
18:52: I love that.
18:53: So good.
18:54: It makes me think there’s a photographer I was listening to having this kind of topic that you’re talking, the subject that you’re talking to, which is like capturing the essence of people versus the perfect picture, and she was speaking to this like obsession we have as women to stay youthful and to get Botox and to Get facelifts and all these things.
19:13: And, you know, personally for me, like, Botox doesn’t align with me, and, but also having to accept, like, oh, I have wrinkles now.
19:21: Like, that feels, when, like, to your point, we spent so much time comparing ourselves to being youthful and beautiful.
19:28: It’s such an odd feeling to age, and naturally, and be OK with it.
19:32: but I loved what she said, because I was speaking to what you are saying, which is that the essence comes through of the person.
19:38: Like she finds the most interesting people to be the people with wrinkles, with movement, with, you know, just showing up as themselves, and you see the essence of them because they’re not, like, especially I think, I think of women in their seventies that haven’t done anything, and they’re so stunning.
19:51: And we see these photos, and we’re like, wow, what a great photo.
19:54: And we don’t really like, we’re not looking at them.
19:56: And going, look at all those wrinkles.
19:57: Like, look how old she looks, you know?
19:59: And I think that’s such an important thing you’re speaking to because traditionally as women, we are held to this beauty standard, and we’re told like, oh, you’re over 40, or you’re at this point, like, what’s, you’re done, you know, like, and I feel like as a woman, like life is just starting.
20:13: Like I’m just getting more and more confident in myself.
20:16: So like, do you see a difference between The younger women that come to you versus the older women, and like how is that shifted how you feel about yourself or even as a photographer.
20:27: Oh man, I wish, I wish I could say that like the older women are so much wiser, but I think everybody is on their own path in like the self-love journey, and it has fucked us all up massively across the board.
20:43: so I see it more in the clients that have spent a lot of time in front of the camera, they’re more comfortable with it compared to the ones that have shied away from it.
20:53: They struggle a little bit more.
20:56: And I think that’s just a muscle that they have been able to use more and you’ve seen yourself more commonly in pictures, so it’s easier to be like, that’s what I look like.
21:05: And that’s OK.
21:07: That’s the other thing I was thinking about this entire time we were talking.
21:09: I was like, huh, I wonder how many people like haven’t seen themselves, like really seen themselves, because I think about like my voice and we were just talking about June, like I went through this process of like never wanting to hear my own voice because I I hated my voice and I was like, ew, do I really sound like that?
21:25: Like that’s so bad, you know, and it’s like this like cringe moment of like, oh no, you know, and I think we do that with photos as well.
21:36: It’s like, well, we Don’t know what we look like because we’re not looking at ourselves, like really looking at ourselves or taking a photo that feels the most us and then on top of that, the pressure of I have to look a certain way or I only want to look at the photos that look like they’re pretty, you know what I mean?
21:53: Like I remember as a little girl when I used to have all my, a lot of my body image stuff, I’d go take millions of photos.
22:02: They all look the same.
22:04: You know, they all really do look the same, and then at the end of the day I’m like, oh, this one, not that one.
22:09: I’m like, why that one?
22:11: Cause I just felt a certain way about it, like, but they all looked literally like hundreds of the same photo is in my phone, and that one specific photo to find that one specific angle where my chin is looking a certain way and like there’s this like perfection that I was looking for.
22:28: When now I’m like, wow, every photo is so beautiful.
22:31: Like I love the way that that was recorded, but it took some time to like really see me, not see myself as the person that I was performing to be in those photos.
22:38: Yeah, and I think it can be really dangerous if we are only seeing ourselves in images that we like and that are beautiful like once a year.
22:47: That’s something I’ve had to welcome to.
22:48: That’s why you’re saying that because I take funny photos of other people.
22:51: Like I have a friend who like loves being I don’t want to say like ugly on camera, but she’ll take like the silly photos and like it’s just like hilarious.
22:59: I’m like, wow, you know, old me and like still parts of me are like, wait, that’s kind of embarrassing.
23:03: Like why do you want to take photos like that.
23:05: You know, and like now I’m like I need to embrace those moments where like no one got the perfect angle of me or like Nick took a picture of me laughing and I look ridiculous and I think I’m like damn, K, you could have laughed prettier, you know, those thoughts really come through people’s heads all, all the time and we’re so mean to ourselves, so we are always going to be the worst than anybody else viewing our pictures.
23:25: They’re like, you look great.
23:26: You look fine.
23:27: What are you talking about.
23:29: Yeah, and then you go back to that photo like a year later and you’re like, wow, I look so pretty there.
23:33: I don’t know why I did not like that photo.
23:36: Yeah, there is a beauty that is when you see the essence of someone, it’s stunning.
23:42: Like that’s what I remember being obsessed with Vogue as a young girl and like there when you saw some a model that was just like in her essence or a celebrity or whoever, you were just like, wow, and they didn’t even.
23:53: didn’t have to be the prettiest person or the most attractive.
23:55: Like, often they were the most unique looking, maybe.
23:57: But like, there’s an essence that comes through, and I think it’s interesting that we continue to be so harsh on ourselves because as we embody that essence or we see it in someone else, I mean, gosh, even in person, like there’s women I meet, I’m like, You are, you are stunning, like holy shit, you know, like God made you just an angel on earth, but it’s not, she isn’t a supermodel, you know, but it’s just so interesting that we, we, it takes, it sounds like it takes quite a process to get to that place on camera.
24:29: Yeah, it does.
24:30: And I’m a big fan of self-portraits in general, and we live in a time that we all have cameras in our phones.
24:37: It is something that literally anybody can do.
24:39: And the more that you can practice it in the safety of your home or a space that you feel good, I think it’s a beautiful opportunity to stretch that muscle a little bit.
24:50: So then the next time you’re with a photographer or you’re in a group photo, even, you feel a little bit better about showing up authentically.
24:57: And I did a 30 day self portrait challenge earlier this year, so I took a photo of myself every day for 30 days with my iPhone, and I had to post it on Instagram and for all of us for everybody to see, and I posted like a video like showing me walking into frame and then like the final photo that I settled on and The hardest part of that entire challenge wasn’t taking the photos because I understand lighting.
25:23: I know what makes me feel good.
25:25: I can pose myself like that was easy.
25:27: I could do that.
25:28: It was just like taking up space for 30 days and I was just like, people are tired of seeing this shit.
25:34: Like, really, here’s me at home again, and it was so uncomfortable, but then the end of it.
25:41: And it took like probably a couple weeks, even months, like later on until I actually started to feel the benefits of doing it every day, because then I would look at myself in the mirror and I would hear the voices of like, oh, your stomach is big, or, oh, you should lose weight, or, oh, look at your eyes.
25:55: And I could stop myself and not keep digging when in the past I would just keep digging and be like, I need to do something about this, like, and it would just like spiral out of control really quickly, but I noticed I could stop because I was like, this is just what you look like and that’s OK.
26:10: There’s nothing wrong with it.
26:11: There was literally nothing wrong with my body.
26:13: There’s literally nothing wrong with the way I look like.
26:15: There’s nothing wrong with the way any of us look like, but we were just such bullies to ourselves that we spend so much time picking that apart when in reality we can just chill the fuck out.
26:25: Its be that simple.
26:27: chill the fuck out.
26:28: I love the Instagram reels or the posts like yours.
26:32: I thought that journey was so fun to To watch, I was like, keep going.
26:35: I, I honestly looked forward to the next photo.
26:37: I was like, what else does Keisha have?
26:39: Like what is tomorrow going to look like?
26:41: And it’s so interesting.
26:42: Like we get in our heads and we think like, oh, they don’t want to see it.
26:45: But if anything, I’m like, wait, show me what you got.
26:47: What is she stepping into?
26:49: Like what, like it’s so brave of you, and I think people are more inspired by that.
26:54: So I just want to reflect that back to you because like you need to know that.
26:56: And then too, one thing that you and I have talked about so much and like even on a watch specifically was committing to challenges, And you know this, you love a good challenge because I think a good challenge is committing to the action and like you really can’t.
27:12: , move through your edges unless you do the thing.
27:16: I think so many of us, and this is why we launched our own challenge slash journey, was because we’re all listening to podcasts all day long, right?
27:24: We, we have conversations about our insecurities or it feels so good to share like, yeah, me too.
27:30: Like I also don’t always feel beautiful.
27:33: I can have, I feel insecure or I feel bigger, whatever, but like what am I going to do to build a muscle that is going to Help me either face that fear and feel that while also choosing the narrative over time.
27:46: And I think that 30 day challenge that you did was such a beautiful and now people can do it evergreen as well, right?
27:53: Yeah, for my website for a free 5 day challenge, and I walk you through like how I actually take my self portraits, and then every day you get a prompt, which is very open ended.
28:02: Just take the photo.
28:04: That is literally all you have to do is take the photo.
28:06: If you can post it, great.
28:07: If not, It’s still yours to keep.
28:10: And even after my 30 day challenge, I printed out all the photos in a book, and I knew that I needed to do it like immediately, otherwise I would have just forgotten about it and life would have moved on.
28:18: But I printed them out and I looked at the photos in the book and I was like, this is an accurate representation of me right now, more so than anything else.
28:27: And it’s like my wedding photos are great and fantastic and like family photos are great, but like, but this is you, this is me.
28:33: How did that feel to to come to that realization?
28:36: It makes me want to cry.
28:40: But I feel so grateful that it even exists, because like when I’m gone, hopefully that book outlives me and my son has something.
28:49: It’s like this was my mom.
28:52: You’re gonna make me cry.
28:54: It’s so true.
28:55: We spend, I think as a woman, like we spend so much time hating ourselves or feeling not enough because we don’t live to like some standard that was, we didn’t even get to choose.
29:04: And it’s so true, like you’re so beautiful, like as a human, and and and aesthetically, but like, But truly like and your essence comes across, but it’s like we, we, I think sometimes back to the like we’ve had an episode about our struggles, and I think of like the decade I spent hating myself, and now I look back and I’m like, what the fuck was wrong with you?
29:23: Like you were stunning, and I look at some of the photos that I remember specifically being like, oh, you know, and I’m just like.
29:29: It’s your, it’s your vessel.
29:30: It’s holding your soul to experience all these amazing things, and I think as women it’s so easy to be like, oh, if I lose 10 pounds, if I, if I just get that, you know, Botox here, if I just get whatever the facelift or the money or whatever it is that we hold ourselves to some unconventional standard, like that’s such a beautiful challenge.
29:49: Like I think every single woman should do it.
29:51: Yeah, and the thing that you just said, it’s like you spent so long hating yourself, and I think we all have spent a really long time hating ourselves.
29:56: So it’s like, Do we want to continue to hate ourselves for the rest of our lives?
30:00: Hm.
30:01: What’s the point of that?
30:03: Like, that’s not why any of us are here, to hate ourselves and to judge ourselves in images and videos for the rest of our lives, to try to fit inside inside beauty values and standards that are complete BS.
30:15: That’s not why we’re here.
30:16: Like, I feel like it’s a weight that we all can just like take off our shoulders a little bit.
30:22: Yeah, it’s also really exhausting.
30:25: Yeah, I remember when I, like before I signed up for like my eating disorder coach that I worked with, like right before that I was like, I’m exhausted of fighting myself every single day, of beating myself down.
30:37: Like it’s exhausting to battle yourself every single day.
30:42: Like the negative thoughts and then feeling shame for the thoughts, and you’re like, I shouldn’t be thinking this way, but I am thinking this way and this is true, and I could be doing better.
30:49: I could be fixing myself.
30:51: It’s just exhausting.
30:53: So like to bring it back to like, is that what You know, I don’t know what you believe in, like your highest self, your God, the universe, like, did he plan to have this life for us to be constantly beating ourselves down and be like, I’m going to punch at you and I’m punching you even harder and like you’re already exhausted, but I’m going to punch you even harder.
31:08: Like, no, like he was like, no, I created you special because you are unique and you get to feel free.
31:14: You need to stay 20 years old forever.
31:17: He didn’t say that.
31:19: I know.
31:19: And I’ve been thinking a lot about aging too, and I posted on threads the other day that I was like, I’m just gonna age.
31:29: I think that’s what I’m gonna do.
31:30: I think I’m just gonna age and, no shame if like the Botox makes you feel good, a facelift, boob jobs, if that’s what makes you feel great and amazing, more power to you.
31:40: I’m not gonna keep up with the maintenance of any of that like personally, so I’m like I think I’m just gonna age and that’s OK.
31:45: But then it’s the reality of like, oh, I have to confront that I’m aging and then I’m gonna look different and I have to remind myself that nobody in my life that loves me and cares about me, cares about any of the things that I’m killing myself over.
31:58: That’s what made me like cry about what you said about your son, because your son just wants, he already sees you as you and he’s not thinking about half the things that were going through our heads, and I think, or through your mind, right?
32:09: He doesn’t know my head, but you know, through your mind and your son just sees you.
32:14: I think that’s what we also forget, especially like when we’re so tunnel vision and thinking about like, oh my God, other people think I’m Fat or bigger or not skinny enough.
32:24: Like, no, like, especially when you do one, like especially the more comfortable you get in your authentic self, like that’s what they see.
32:31: Like when I walk into a room, I don’t see what people their size.
32:35: I just feel their energy and you know, ultimately people want to feel you and I think your son feels his mom.
32:43: Yeah.
32:44: And I want him to remember that.
32:45: I don’t want him to remember a photoshopped image of me.
32:49: And we actually have this big blown up picture of our of an engagement photo that my husband and I did 13 years ago.
32:57: And I remember taking the photo and I was like, oh, this is great.
32:59: We’re like, On a boat on a lake, it was like very notebooky and before I blew up the photo, I photoshopped myself in it.
33:08: I photoshopped my arms.
33:09: I photoshopped underneath my neck, and every time I see that photo in my house, that’s what I think of that I photoshopped myself in it, not like the engagement photo, but it was like that that wasn’t good enough and I had the tools to easily fix it.
33:20: So why not?
33:21: I’m just going to fix it.
33:22: And so.
33:23: That was 13 years ago, so it’s like there has, I’ve made a lot of shifts since then, but 13 years ago, like I would Photoshop myself because that’s what felt the most comfortable.
33:34: Yeah, we all have we all have, and it’s really easy now to do.
33:37: It is too, like even just changing the colors, changing the angle.
33:41: I never like moved my body, but I was always fixing it.
33:43: It was never good enough.
33:46: Like, if any, like at the time I was like, no, it needs to look a certain way.
33:49: Now I like the most organic photos that they’re out there where they’re not even fixed.
33:52: Yeah, it’s interesting too because we’re, I was telling Corinna like before today, like we’re watching Harry Potter, like the whole series, and one, it’s so cool to like watch these kids become adults, but what I love, and I love British actors for this in general, is like you see full facial movement.
34:08: They don’t hire the prettiest people, they hire the best actors, and I even think about Sarah Jessica Parker’s like.
34:14: A beautiful example.
34:15: Like she is allowing herself to just age, and she looks beautiful.
34:18: And like watching these actors, like you’re just, you’re not thinking like, oh, look how pretty she is or her face isn’t moving.
34:24: You’re just fully focused on the role that, like the story, you know, and I think like that is our reality.
34:30: Like we don’t, at least for me, I don’t like look at other people and say, like, that’s not what I’m thinking of is their image or what they’re, they look like.
34:38: I’m like exactly what Crina said.
34:39: Like, who are you?
34:40: What’s your essence?
34:41: What are you bringing to the table?
34:42: What are you bringing to the room?
34:43: And I think having this conversation is so powerful because we, we It’s time to change this narrative.
34:49: Like, I think of all the little girls who are only going to grow up on social media.
34:53: That’s all they know.
34:55: They don’t even know what a non-photoshopped image looks like half the time.
34:59: No, and now with AI, it’s like a whole other, it’s like the wild, wild west.
35:04: Yeah, it’s so bad.
35:06: It makes me so mad sometimes when I see the AI stuff.
35:09: I’m like, wait, I can’t even tell if that’s real or not.
35:12: Like, what are we doing?
35:14: It’s just, yeah, yeah, I mean, my hope is that we swing back, like the pendulum swings back to like the importance is.
35:22: Capturing the photos first of all, because it’s like we are not all going to be here forever.
35:27: Capturing your photos, printing your photos because I used to go to Costco.
35:33: I was like I loved it.
35:34: I’d go to Costco and pick up like 50 whatever things that my mom would do, like, where I sign my name and you’re looking for your last name.
35:40: I’ve missed those moments now.
35:42: I’m like, now when I honestly though, when I go print photos, I’m like, where do I print a photo?
35:46: Because I used to go to you can print them, but you can, but it’s like I went through this process of like that’s not that’s normal when I was younger.
35:53: It was like every weekend we’re picking up photos.
35:56: It was so much simpler.
35:57: A lot of things were simpler then, and now there’s so much digital clutter that I fear we have generations of photos that are just going to be lost in a hard drive that then you can’t plug in because the technology is going to change.
36:10: But at least if you have.
36:11: In an album or print it out somewhere like there’s a tangibleness to it that you’re gonna like remember you’re going to move, you’re going to make sure it’s stored somewhere safe.
36:19: So yeah, print your photos, people.
36:21: Yeah, and when I mean my husband and I have been together 10 years, but I would say for the 1st 5 years of our relationship before COVID, essentially, every time we’d take a trip, I would take photos everywhere and I’d print them and make a book for him for every trip we’ve been on.
36:33: doing that.
36:33: I know.
36:34: I just, you made me think of that and I was like, OK, I’m gonna do that.
36:37: Yeah, do it.
36:39: Do it.
36:40: It is so worth it.
36:41: And looking through them is so amazing, and you’re just like, wow, look how far we’ve come.
36:45: Like, look at what we got to experience, like the gratitude.
36:48: I even when I go through my phone to look for old things, I’m just like, wow, look at all these photos I never look at that are just, that’s a cool memory.
36:55: Wow, I should probably remember that and print it.
36:59: So that’s a great suggestion.
37:01: Any others?
37:01: What else would you say?
37:03: You said just take the picture, print the photos.
37:06: Try to have some fun in the process of it.
37:10: we remember a lot what the experience was during the photos, and that can greatly affect how we view them and how we want to use them later on.
37:19: So, I mean, Yeah, this happens all the time, especially with clients where it’s like they had like a really rough day like leading up to it.
37:27: Their car broke down, like all these things happen.
37:29: That’s what they’re going to remember every time they see their photos, not necessarily like what the actual photos look like.
37:34: That’s what they’re gonna remember.
37:35: So if you can set the stage for yourself, like do all the things beforehand that is going to make you feel good, whether that is like Working out before or getting your nails done, a spray tan, like literally wearing your favorite outfit, whatever it is, do those things before a shoot if you can.
37:53: And then listen to some really good music.
37:55: I feel like music changes the vibe for everything.
37:59: So even like on the way to a shoot, during a shoot, like playing music, get into it and don’t take yourself so seriously.
38:06: Like In most cases, especially working with a professional photographer, they’re gonna help you.
38:11: They’re going to guide you through things.
38:13: They’re not just gonna like throw you in front of a wall and be like, what you got?
38:18: They’re gonna help you.
38:18: So try to have fun in the process of it.
38:20: And I do think it is beneficial to.
38:23: Communicate if you do have any like insecurities to your photographer, it’s a safe space.
38:28: You can tell them like, hey, I like this side of my face.
38:30: I always like to ask my clients, like, is there anything you want to tell me?
38:33: Do you have any preferences?
38:34: Some people don’t like smiling with their teeth.
38:36: I don’t want to spend an hour trying to get you to smile with your teeth if you hate it.
38:42: Yeah, keep going, keep going, so I always ask that before a shoot, I was like, oh, I got you guys.
38:51: Those are great, but like just the fact that you’re also saying like tell your photographer what you’re like what are you nervous about, I think is like huge, right?
38:58: Like I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone ask me that ever.
39:04: No one, no one’s ever asked me like what is there anything you want to tell me, but when that question would come around, I didn’t think like, oh.
39:11: Do I need to tell them that I like one side of my face and I don’t like one side of my face, or I like to smile.
39:16: I don’t want to I like or I’m actually feeling really nervous.
39:18: Like I never really had those conversations with any photographer.
39:21: OK.
39:22: But I think that’s amazing.
39:23: I would have loved that.
39:24: I would have loved a photographer to be like, cause I’m definitely one of those people that would be like, OK, I have to be serious.
39:28: What would a model do?
39:29: What’s the right pose?
39:30: Like, I don’t know, I’m not a model.
39:32: I’m like, I think like this, you know, and then sometimes they tell you poses to do and stuff, but never to be like, hey, it seems like you’re tense.
39:39: How can we relax?
39:40: Like, or here, what’s your favorite song, or Yeah, like making it fun, like asking those questions.
39:46: Do you think it’s important for someone to like, talk to multiple photographers before they pick one?
39:53: Because that’s it, like, especially with like coaches or something, like I think sometimes not some photographers are like, here, come in, get the job done, leave, like there is an energy in that.
40:02: But I think the energy that we’re talking to here, it’s almost like kind of date your photographer for a second, have a conversation with them, feel them out and see who you feel safe with, because it is also a very intimate, vulnerable experience that we’re talking about.
40:15: So maybe a little bit of that too.
40:18: Yeah, I would say anything it’s really good to talk to multiple people about it and not just hire like the first person.
40:24: I mean, if you feel amazing about it and you’re like, I vibe with this person, like why?
40:27: Yeah, why waste time talking to other people, but definitely interviewing other people and asking.
40:32: The photographer, like, hey, how does a session like run?
40:35: Like what do you do to make somebody feel comfortable?
40:37: I’m really anxious.
40:38: I’m really nervous in front of the camera.
40:40: Like, how can you help me through that?
40:42: And just see what they have to say.
40:43: If they’re like, Oh, I don’t know, it’s on you, then maybe it’s not a good fit.
40:47: But if you feel really confident and comfortable engaging.
40:51: On your own and you don’t need a lot of guidance and you just literally want someone there to like snap a picture, then it might be OK to have less guidance.
40:57: So definitely talking to them about that, seeing examples of their work is always really beneficial.
41:02: This was huge when I was a wedding photographer because it was this big moment in people’s lives, but seeing like an entire gallery of photos, not just like one or two images of a shoot, being able to look at them and be like, cool, what can, what does 100 photos look like?
41:16: Like, not just like 5 of your best portfolio images, because that will give you a better idea of what to actually expect from a shoot when you’re paying someone hundreds of dollars to be there for.
41:26: I think that will give you a better idea of like, do I vibe with this person?
41:29: And if the photographer that you’re talking to, even if you like them and you like vibe with them, if the photos that they are taking don’t align with what you like stylistically, find another photographer.
41:42: I love this because I don’t think people think beyond.
41:48: The external, like even right now as I’m choosing wedding photographers for myself and in Portugal, so it’s also a different country, like I’m not even getting married here, there’s this essence of like they’re just sending me their Instagrams and they’re like pick the one that you want.
42:03: And I think a lot of people do do that where they’re picking the photographer based on their work, which I think it’s also important, right?
42:11: Like I think you need to align with their work to some extent, but we’re talking about taking it a little bit deeper into the fact that it’s more than like get to know the photographer beyond their work.
42:23: Because again, this is beyond image.
42:25: I feel like this episode is going to be titled Beyond Image.
42:28: Beyond the external image.
42:30: I don’t know how to say that, but like we’re talking about way more beyond that.
42:35: It’s easy to just pick off of images and be like, cool, I like this.
42:39: Like, let’s just do the exact same thing.
42:40: But also replicating images is incredibly challenging and is almost impossible in most cases to be like, this is what I want and do the exact same thing.
42:48: It’s just doesn’t translate.
42:51: So making sure that you have that connection with your photographer, I think will make the entire process easier and smoother and the end result, you’ll probably be much happier with, but it’s OK to share like, hey, these are the types of photos I like.
43:04: But if you’re showing them images and their work looks nothing like it.
43:09: You should find a photographer that their work aligns with that style because it’s easy to think like, oh, I can just edit it differently, but it’s like that’s not my wheelhouse and that’s not where I shine, so you should hire somebody who shines in that wheelhouse and that aesthetic that then you also can connect with.
43:24: So sometimes it can take a little while to find like the right fit, but I think once you do, it will make the entire experience and the entire process of working with them so much easier and enjoyable.
43:35: Yeah, yeah, sure.
43:36: Any other last minute tips that someone can do as they’re picking their photographer?
43:41: Ask around your first, like your network of people.
43:44: So if you have friends, that have gotten married recently or have worked with a photographer, ask around and be like, Hey, did you like this photographer?
43:52: And see what you can get there because it can be really overwhelming to just like do a Google search and look through hundreds and hundreds of websites.
44:00: Like that’s stressful for anybody.
44:03: so ask your network for sure.
44:05: And then I always lean on like going with your gut, like go with what feels right.
44:11: You don’t have to.
44:13: It depends on what you’re looking for.
44:14: Obviously a wedding is a day that you’re not going to be able to redo, but if it’s like a family shoot or even like a brand photos, like, it’s OK if it’s not right the first time.
44:23: Like you can redo a brand shoot.
44:24: You can redo portraits of yourself, So make sure it’s a good fit with the person you’re working with and take a little bit of pressure off of it because even on your wedding day, honestly, you’re probably going to print like 5 of those photos and that’s about it.
44:39: Yeah, well, yeah, a whole another conundrum that I’m dabbling with right now, you’ve been paying for one.
44:43: , not in a bad way, just because I’m like, what am I gonna do with these photos, but they’re gonna be nice and I need to have the photos, but I told her to get a videographer.
44:51: She also wants me to do a videographer, which I’m also like, do I really need it?
44:54: You don’t want one.
44:55: Well, I’ve been thinking a lot about one thing I want to see.
44:59: So authenticity means so much for me and I’ve done so much work for it to be that way.
45:03: And like one thing that I’d be so fun and authentic is like my family taking videos and me putting that into a video for everyone else.
45:12: so like, however, Samantha sees it, I see it, and then hiring someone like honestly like a s like our videographer to take real life like how how everyone else sees.
45:20: The wedding versus how a professional sees the wedding.
45:23: Like that’s something that I’ve been really dabbling with internally is like, I’ll do the photoshoot because I really want to capture beautiful photos, but the video specifically, like I’m like, do I want it to be through a professional’s eyes or do I want to see it through my family’s eyes?
45:37: Then I would say maybe ask everyone to at least, yeah, OK.
45:42: Because I think like I’ve been to a lot of weddings and you think all these people are gonna take photos or videos, but then you get so into the wedding like it doesn’t happen.
45:49: Like people are just like dancing and drinking and no it would be like a gnome thing yeah, OK, if I decide to do that.
45:54: I’m like, but Rochelle will be there.
45:55: She will get you good footage.
45:57: She’s a, she does a lot of, yeah, and your sister will too.
46:00: That’s true.
46:00: I think people will, my parents will like if I tell them like I would love to capture the video through their eyes, like that’s something I’m just thinking about too.
46:08: I feel like that could be so cool.
46:10: Yeah, that is a cool idea.
46:11: Yeah.
46:11: And there’s a whole industry of wedding content creators that didn’t exist 10 years ago that now is a whole thing that you can get like the vibe and the feel of your day.
46:22: I don’t know about in Portugal, like where to find that, but I’m sure they exist, that you can get a vibe for how the day was without it being like a cinematic 40 minute video of your wedding.
46:32: That may not be a high priority.
46:34: But yeah, there’s just things in that in the details of things that I’ve been thinking about, but I love what you said.
46:39: Like it is a chance for your child to see this like essence of you at this age in your life that they’ll never get to experience because they don’t exist yet.
46:48: So there is something really cool about like video to me is just, I think of the old like camcorder videos, like they’re just so special versus, I mean, photos are amazing too, but like video really captures the moment.
46:59: The sounds are really powerful.
47:04: I think they’re beautiful, especially when you can combine them together to remember something because it’s can go on your wall, you can watch and be transported back to it.
47:15: I know.
47:19: Wedding decisions, but this is so good.
47:22: one question that we ask, well, is there anything else in regards to photography, getting behind the camera that someone can that someone can need, might need to listen to that is either struggling to get behind the camera or just wants to feel more of themselves.
47:36: The first thing that comes to mind is actually, after you step in front of the camera, when you get images back, if you see images of yourself and you’re like, Oh my God, I’m ugly and I hate everything about these, close your computer, walk away.
47:49: Don’t look at them.
47:50: Don’t keep digging and picking at that scab.
47:53: And And then come back in like 2 weeks.
47:56: Come back in 1 month.
47:56: Come back when you are feeling kinder towards yourself, and then look at the images again and go through them really quickly and mark the ones you like, delete the ones that you don’t like, and move on with your life.
48:05: Like don’t let how the photos come out define how you feel about yourself.
48:11: It’s also really great advice because just from like a nervous system perspective or like if you’re super hypervigilant and you’re used to like picking yourself apart internally, like giving yourself a really good day, like go do the workout, go to the beach, go do something that makes you feel really good, and then come back to the photos, like you will see things differently, like our subconscious is just creating a reality for ourselves and if you’re in a negative space, you’re going to see negativity.
48:33: , but if you’re in a place of regulated and you’re feeling happy and you’re feeling grateful, maybe ideally do it during your ovulation phase, molecular ovulation phase, the first two weeks of your cycle, you’ll have a much better grounded reality to what you see in those photos.
48:50: That’s funny you said that because when you were saying you did the 30 day challenge, I was like, hm, how did the luteal phase go?
48:57: I don’t even know.
48:58: I feel like I did it like 5.
49:01: I did it Monday through Friday, and then I would take the weekends off, and by Friday I was so done with the entire thing.
49:05: I was like, I don’t want to do this anymore.
49:07: So it was really nice to have at least like a buffer a couple of days that I didn’t have to do it.
49:11: but to your point about going back to the photos and looking at them, it’s kind of like when we see photos from ourselves in high school, and it’s like even like that space of time, and it doesn’t have to be long.
49:21: Sometimes it can be a couple of hours, sometimes it could be a week.
49:23: It can dramatically change the way that we think and we view about those images, but I think the more that we obsess about them when we don’t like them, like we’re just hating ourselves more and we’re not going to continue to hate ourselves.
49:36: Like we want to move past that.
49:38: Such great advice.
49:39: And like one photoshoot does not entail like who you are.
49:42: What you look like every day, even like not even close, yeah, not even close.
49:47: And there’s usually a purpose to the photos.
49:48: Like if you’re doing photos for your business, like you’re trying to grow your business, you’re trying to give people another way to connect with you, to see the person that they’re working with, to build that know like and trust.
49:59: If you’re taking family photos, you want to capture what your family looks like at that moment or your parents or your siblings.
50:03: Like you want to capture all of that, and that’s the purpose of it.
50:06: And You will get like the payoff down the line.
50:10: You may not get it instantly, but you’re going to be so glad you have those photos in 5 years, 20 years, 40 years.
50:15: Yeah, so true.
50:16: Such a good reminder to take photos.
50:18: Take photos.
50:19: I went to brunch yesterday with a friend.
50:20: She’s like, I’m trying to do a better job of like just capturing the moment.
50:23: Can we please take a photo?
50:25: And she’s like, I just want to make, she wants albums, she wants to print photos.
50:28: I was like, Yeah, of course, but when you look at it from a place of that, it makes it so much easier.
50:32: We’re like desirable, or like, wow, I get to be grateful for this moment.
50:35: I might not, I’m not gonna relive this moment.
50:37: Yeah, they’re gone after that moment.
50:42: So the one question that we ask all of our guests, and we’d love to ask you is, where in your life are you feeling called to be more fully expressed?
50:48: This could be life.
50:49: This could be love, this could be business.
50:51: , I am called to be feeling more fully expressed in my wardrobe and my personal style.
50:59: I had a closet clarity session with a stylist, and she was talking about like, yeah, you know, when you’re getting dressed, it’s supposed to be fun.
51:07: And I was like, you’re like, what?
51:09: This is fun.
51:10: And I feel Like it can be such a really creative and amazing form of expression that I just haven’t really done much of and haven’t put energy into it.
51:19: I’m like, it would be really fun and enjoyable to like go into your closet and play and use that as a form of art and how are you feeling, which I’ve never done really before in my life.
51:31: I love that so much.
51:32: I’ve gone through similar journeys myself, and I still think there’s more versions of me to express myself through clothing.
51:37: Totally.
51:38: it’s such a way of styling yourself.
51:40: Like it’s how you present yourself and how you express yourself, and I also think it’s really cool because we changed so much.
51:46: I mean, for the longest time I wore the same thing all the time.
51:49: Yeah, and I mean there’s seasons of life and like that was a season of life that I was in, especially like when I was a new mom that was like I was just trying to get through the day with clothes on and that was great.
51:58: And now that I’m not so much in that season anymore, I’m like it would be really fun to just Go into my wardrobe and have fun with it.
52:06: I literally hated everything in my closet.
52:08: I was like, why am I keeping all this stuff that I was trying to make work for a long time?
52:11: So what does like Keisha’s style or expression look like right now?
52:17: , utilitarian, like when it’s like what I’ve normally done that like works, but there’s not a lot of joy.
52:25: Everything was like very beige in my closet and I was like, I would like more color.
52:30: I would like more joy, brightness.
52:32: Yeah, yeah, I love it.
52:35: So good.
52:36: , well, thank you so much for coming on your Sunday, your sacred Sunday.
52:44: I want to acknowledge that because we do do these on the weekends.
52:47: Well worth it.
52:48: Well worth it.
52:49: It’s just going to be such a, it’s such an important conversation and we don’t talk about it enough.
52:55: Men go through this, women go through this, like the day to day and It’s such an, like it’s happening outside all the time, and so bringing some light to it and also making it one real, but then also giving us tips on how do we like navigate that in the moment and we don’t get stuck in like the beating ourselves down.
53:12: Thank you so much for having me.
53:14: This was.
53:15: We hope you loved today’s episode and that it sparked something in you on your journey to becoming more fully expressed.
53:21: Don’t forget to check the show notes for all the details and resources from today’s conversation.
53:26: If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review.
53:28: We’d love to hear your honest thoughts and takeaways as it really helps us to create content that better serves you.
53:33: This week, we invite you to show up even more as you, more honest, more real, more expressive in your life and business, and we’ll see you on the next one.